Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 05:33 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I agree that Des has a purity of character that would make him perfect to become mankind's protector.
I wonder if one of the intentions of DI was to explore psychic abilities as they were influenced by EM in an attempt to one day harness a Dr M type power. DI failed, but then through a series of 'random' events, Des comes to the island, is exposed to the EM for 3 years, then through the failsafe, becomes what they were originally trying to create. It's an interesting play on the science/fate theme.
Hi Captain, what an interesting twist that would be if by fate Des became what Dharma was originally trying to create. I love it!
Now that my tinfoil has thawed out, I came up with an idea about what happened to the original Dharmas - the ones that didn't succumb to polar bears, etc. I was thinking about Adrian's creation of a psychic monster that could release horrific thoughts and images upon its death and take out millions of people at the same time. I'm wondering if the Dharmas may have been trying to do something similar.
However, unlike Adrian's creation, the island monster somehow gained the ability to upload thoughts and images of its own choosing, and in doing so it read the Dharmas' minds, so to speak, and knew of their plan to kill it as part of their scheme to save the world. It then released a bunch of horrific images and thoughts in self defense that resulted in their deaths. Perhaps some of the horrific things were manifest as people ala Eko.
Now, wary of humankind, the smoke roams around and strikes out pre-emptively in a sort of hyper-vigilant self-defense. Like all other living beings, it's primary biological directive is to stay alive. The smoke we've seen is at once a being thingy and a security system in that it is protecting itself and its source of EM energy perhaps. It sure seemed to want the button pushing to continue.
On another note, perhaps the children are needed to somehow try to reprogram the dam thing. Their so-called innocence, should the smoke upload it, could act as a therapeutic intervention. LOL, I can't believe I just said that. The Others are attempting psychiatric therapy on the smoke. Good lord, now I've heard it all.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 06:23 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Now I've seen it all. Here's the grandaddy of conspiracy theories. Secret Google Earth.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/194D60C1582347D0AF5EB813D7675D08/secret-google-earth.aspx
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 06:56 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
I just had a thought on the "CS" comment (i know, I'm a little behind on my thinking) but i don't remember anyone suggesting that maybe, just maybe, now that there is no button, it's impossible to get off the island?
If you're in the party that believes that each time there was a crash to the island it was because of a failure to push the button (or something similar) then it could make sense that, if there is no button, no failsafe, no release left, that the magnet would be left unchecked and that you wouldn't ever be able to leave, right?
aah! I might have made up my own theory! wait...what's this...on my head...tinfoil??? who put that there???
hurry, someone, tell me someone already said this so i don't have a heart attack!
Message was edited by: Little_Rosie7
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 09:57 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
aah! I might have made up my own theory! wait...what's this...on my head...tinfoil??? who put that there???
OMG there's a tower of tinfoil on Rosie's head! What next, a mining headlamp?
My thought is that the island's magnetic fields amplify and heighten (well, yes, that would be the same thing) any extrasensory abilities that a person has, expressed or latent. I think that Desmond may have had psychic tendencies beforehand (this may have come partly from a spoiler but I can't remember the specifics); remember the "What if you did (fix Sarah?" line? And of course the mural.
My thought has always been that there's something much bigger inside the island, underneath the jungle area (possibly near the ? and the Pearl, in the center) -- I think that's where the key island hijinx come from, and that the kids are there, being used for their flexibility of mind.
What if the island has been an underground CIA laboratory (I still see "Lab is Up" in the mural), a well-kept secret for many years that recruits gifted children from around the world, through people like Isaac and Malkin? The island is centered on mind control and manipulation of behavior, using the children's heightened sensory abilities and extremely high magnetic fields in specific areas (where people are lured with the visions -- the areas with the red flowers above where the kids are). People stationed in the real world, along with Oceanic Airlines, are referred to as the Carriers; they (Cindy and Bernard, for instance) follow up on those singled out by people like Malkin and Isaac and manipulate events to bring them to the island periodically.
continued
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 09:57 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Once on the island, the children, with the adults guiding them, spy and report events from a perfect vantage point: they are sandwiched between the Dharma stations (below, obviously) and the island above. They are camouflagued when the come above ground to spy - in the trees, foliage, etc -- connected to all those wires and metal parts (can't forget my Wiry, Wiry World!). They can manipulate the smoke material with their mind's eye, as well as read and somehow infiltrate peoples' minds to impart dreams and visions (visions possibly only in certain areas where the EMF's are extraordinarily high). These would be the Whisperers we hear. It's another technique to add to a military arsenal, and, if it works, is mostly non-violent.
(continued)
Maybe the Others are two parts of one group delegated different tasks: one group uses the kids to manipulate their minds from below, the other interacts with them in preplanned encounters to assess them psychologically and interact with them, using their own manipulation skills. Maybe the groups diverged because the kid group was becoming increasingly sinister and violent, or because what they were doing to the kids was immoral.
continued
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 09:59 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
The failsafe released such a surge of EM energy that all the techniques are thrown out of whack -- perhaps Smokey was only supposed to drag Eko into a hole or soemthing, not kill him, but the surge in power made him go haywire. And, most interestingly, it aslo served to heighten dormant extraperceptual abilities like those Desmond had - this kind of thing may be a big threat for the jungle others to contend with.
Now here's the double layer of tinfoil part:
What if all of the Losties, or most of the key people, had been on the island themselves as young gifted children, brought by their military or medical fathers. Perhaps one of the incidents occurred during their time, or the baddish Others became more and more nefarious. In any case, one of the good Others helped them get rescued, airlifted out or something. They of course had to be debriefed, and their memories of being on the island were erased through a CIA technique...maybe the deprogamming used a mind compartmentalization hypnosis technique cand led them through the process of collecting all of these specific memories and sealing them in a metaphorical box in their minds, with instructions to never open that box.
continued
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 10:00 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
That's what Lenny, once a child himself on the island, was referring to when Hurley used the numbers. He wasn't talking about unleashing a "curse" or letting out the bad luck -- he was referring to the fact that once you opened the box, you would let some of the memories begin to trickle out and could never close the box again. You probably would start to go crazy. Maybe some of them chose a symbol or object as their box - like Kate's toy plane. When they dug up the plane and she saw it, she probably remembered her own plane, and began to remember bits and pieces of her past. I'm rambling, but the idea is that very slowly, things about the island begin to give them a sense of deja vu, a weird sense of familiarity which doesn't make sense, but will eventually allow them to piece things back together. Maybe the good Others are even providing them with familiar things on the island (the horse) to help them along. They'll remember what was done to them, be able to finally understand the island's weirdness, and be well-equiped to take on the Others (" Oh, $#*% off, Patchy - I know it's you there, not Yemi -- I'm not going within 30 yards of those red flowers.").
continued
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 02 @ 10:00 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
They'd probably regain their former special abilities, they'd know exactly what was going on, and as they're a pretty kick-a$$ group to begin with, they'll be the ones to be reckoned with.
And the best part - we'll get to see flashbacks of them as kids together on the island - how cool is that?
And...and..and...and what if Danielle was the one who saved them? Originally part of the CIA science group (I fantasize that it was she who developed the securtity system to begin with), but increasingly opposed to what was going on with the kids. She got them off, and went through the same memory erasing "box" song and dance. She may have been fed a false story of her island experience to round out the missing chunk of real memories. The way she tells her tale is so disjointed and hypnotic - it's almost like she's been told the story instead of having experienced it. Maybe her music box was opened for the first time and she's starting to begin to remember. Or maybe it was the "See you in another life" line on Nadia's picture, which could very well be the catchphrase they said before deprogramming them.
Maybe. Or maybe it's just desperate fantasing about scenes of Danielle as a young scientist helping the Losties as kids, and the scenes of all of them now saving the poor kids trapped underground.
end
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 03:42 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I just had a thought on the "CS" comment (i know, I'm a little behind on my thinking) but i don't remember anyone suggesting that maybe, just maybe, now that there is no button, it's impossible to get off the island?
If you're in the party that believes that each time there was a crash to the island it was because of a failure to push the button (or something similar) then it could make sense that, if there is no button, no failsafe, no release left, that the magnet would be left unchecked and that you wouldn't ever be able to leave, right?
aah! I might have made up my own theory! wait...what's this...on my head...tinfoil??? who put that there???
hurry, someone, tell me someone already said this so i don't have a heart attack!
Message was edited by: Little_Rosie7
Hi Lil' Rosie,
That tinfoil looks very good on you.
I like this idea a lot, and it makes sense to me. One thing I really love is that it allows for Michael's and Walt's return to the island without portraying Ben as someone who goes back on his word. (Okay, go ahead and laugh, Ben's the biggest liar in the world, but somehow I believed him when he gave Michael his word.)
Further, this scenario could refuel debates about how much Ben knew about the hatch and the button and the EM thingy and whether or not he knew beforehand that Michael's boat couldn't leave.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 04:01 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Lucky, thanks for that recap of your ideas.
I can't remember the context or the quote, but I'm pretty sure TPTB have talked about Desmond's psychic ability existing prior to the purple sky thingy. Was it by way of explaining his hatch mural? I can't remember now. Sometimes speculations are around so long they take on a life of their own.
Speaking of taking on a life of their own, can you recall the genesis of the various conspiracy theories? I keep going back and trying to reconstruct what scene or event or, more likely, cluster of events on the show led down that path. Was it Slappy's theory about the same car appearing in the flashbacks? Maybe it wasn't any one single theory that started it off but a collective consciousness thing that somehow reached critical mass in one of the LOST hive minds.
What did you think of Watchmen? Any fresh ideas relevant to LOST?
Message was edited by: back_gammon
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 09:22 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
George, cut it out.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 12:31 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good afternoon Joopers!
I'll agree that Des is most like Dr. Manhattan. Seeing into the future, having a tie to love, it is easy to piece him into the Watchmen story. Placing Locke and Eko is a little more difficult. I'll have to think about that one a bit longer.
For me, the question that really needs to be answered is who fits into Adrian's character? Afterall he "engineered a monster, cloned its brain from a human psychic, sent it to New York and killed half of the city." And another quote worth mentioning " The psychic was the key, poor young Robert Deschuaines. I acquired his brain after death any my geneticists cloned something much bigger and more powerful from it, incorporating it into my creatrure. The brain was a psychic resonator. It would amplify a signal pulse and broadcast it. The signal triggered by the onset of death. We coded a lot of information into that signal. Max Shea's descriptions of an alien world, Hira Manish's images and Linette Paley's sounds..." Will the answer to this end up being HIM?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 12:56 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
For me, the question that really needs to be answered is who fits into Adrian's character? Afterall he "engineered a monster, cloned its brain from a human psychic, sent it to New York and killed half of the city." And another quote worth mentioning " The psychic was the key, poor young Robert Deschuaines. I acquired his brain after death any my geneticists cloned something much bigger and more powerful from it, incorporating it into my creatrure. The brain was a psychic resonator. It would amplify a signal pulse and broadcast it. The signal triggered by the onset of death. We coded a lot of information into that signal. Max Shea's descriptions of an alien world, Hira Manish's images and Linette Paley's sounds..." Will the answer to this end up being HIM?
(head explodes)
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:07 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good afternoon Joopers!
I'll agree that Des is most like Dr. Manhattan. Seeing into the future, having a tie to love, it is easy to piece him into the Watchmen story. Placing Locke and Eko is a little more difficult. I'll have to think about that one a bit longer.
For me, the question that really needs to be answered is who fits into Adrian's character? Afterall he "engineered a monster, cloned its brain from a human psychic, sent it to New York and killed half of the city." And another quote worth mentioning " The psychic was the key, poor young Robert Deschuaines. I acquired his brain after death any my geneticists cloned something much bigger and more powerful from it, incorporating it into my creatrure. The brain was a psychic resonator. It would amplify a signal pulse and broadcast it. The signal triggered by the onset of death. We coded a lot of information into that signal. Max Shea's descriptions of an alien world, Hira Manish's images and Linette Paley's sounds..." Will the answer to this end up being HIM?
Zen!
Great question about the parallel Adrian character!
I'm inclined to think Benry is HIM, at least the on-island HIM, but there's still Jacob lurking in the wings and who knows who else so it's very possible a bigger HIM exists. I also wonder if Adrian/Him is on the island.
There's always Mittelwerk as a possible Adrian/HIM, but somehow that doesn't seem very exciting - I feel like that story has already played out in the Lost Experience.
Please don't think I've lost my mind, but it occurred to me that Penny Widmore might be HIM, or should I say, HER. Okay, that's too crazy. Besides, I don't think she's old enough to have started the whole crazy scheme rolling, which, I presume, was some years ago.
But back to the Adrian parallel. Adrian was the smartest person on the planet and extremely rich, and he liked to watch everything happen in his wall of monitors. If an Adrian parallel does in fact exist in LOST, and if it isn't a yet-to-be-met HIM, it just might be Ben.
We don't know if Ben's rich, but he's sure smart and he sure loves to watch things in his monitors. He seems to like the isolation of living on the island. He's a great liar and con-man. And he considers himself good. I guess the only question remaining is does he have a stake in world affairs off-island to the extent that he would want to create a creature that could presumably save humankind through whatever crazy scheme.
On a final note, one thing that really stood out in Watchmen was the statement about "noble intentions leading to atrocity." That sounds a lot like the Others, IMHO.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:11 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
(head explodes)
Lucky, oh no! Are you okay?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:11 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
(head explodes)
Oh dear! Oh my! Lucky! Help!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:24 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Oh dear! Oh my! Lucky! Help!
Zen, quick, you grab the wigs and I'll grab the mop. We'll have Lucky put right in no time.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:26 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Zen, quick, you grab the wigs and I'll grab the mop. We'll have Lucky put right in no time.
Zen grabs Lucky's fabled wig collection, and starts to fan Lucky....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 01:30 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
bg brings a mop and some smelling salts and a cold compress for Lucky's head.
Lucky, it's okay. You're Jiffy Pop thingy is just a little rusty from the long hiatus. It's going to be okay. Just take some slow, deep breaths.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 05:34 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
Hi Lil' Rosie,
That tinfoil looks very good on you.
I like this idea a lot, and it makes sense to me.
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside! :0)
WAIT! LUCKY! Stand back everyone, I'm first aid, CPR, and EHR (exploded head reintigration) trained.
*waves magic hands over Lucky and says a prayer*
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 06:03 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Lil' Rosie, thanks for trying to help Lucky.
And if anyone is interested, Gregg Nations is back and has answered a bunch of questions at the Fuselage.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/forumdisplay.php?f=174&order=desc
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 03 @ 06:28 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
A few juicy tidbits from Gregg Nations.
Sayid and Juliet.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=64489
The deleted scenes that appear on the dvd's are back to being non-canon.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67723
The flight time contradiction - it seems we've missed something.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67462
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67400
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 05:47 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers!
Happy Super Bowl Sunday. I hope we get another great LOST promo this year like we did during last year's Super Bowl. Who can forget "Addicted to Lost"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFnD-TTEDPQ
Drat, I just learned that the Super Bowl is on CBS this year, not ABC. Probably no great promo.
Message was edited by: back_gammon
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 06:22 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Spoiler talk
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
Oh dear me! In light of the spoiler about Juliet sucessfully impregnating a male mouse, what if Ben's tumor isn't really a tumor but a... gulp... baby? Maybe Jack's not doing a tumor removal but a... gulp.... Caesarian?
D
O
N
E
Done
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 09:31 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Zen sneaks a peek at the spoilerish stuff and exclaims "Unholy In Vitro Fertilization Batman!" sees stars and faints dead away
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 09:41 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen sneaks a peek at the spoilerish stuff and exclaims "Unholy In Vitro Fertilization Batman!" sees stars and faints dead away
Oh no!
Zen? Are you okay? Here's the smelling salts.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 10:04 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Oh no!
Zen? Are you okay? Here's the smelling salts.
Zen's head is whirling...eyes start to open....
Whoa! That would definitely be a specific reason Ben didn't want any outside doctors!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 10:11 AM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi all. Luckily, the sub-zero temperature saved my exploding head. The pieces froze in mid-air and I was able to pick them back up and put them back together like a frozen puzzle. I did get a glimpse of some strange contents and a few stray wires, but that's neither here nor there.
Bg, I love the Penny Widmore idea, although I'm not sure how HIM could be a HER. Maybe HIM is an acronym. Hermaphrodite Island Monarch? LOL.
I still think Bernard could be Jacob/Him/Adrian, but I'm also inclined to think that Mr. Paik is a possibility. He sits in that office watching the "eye" of the island on those plasma screens. It's like a Bang & Olafson version of the Pearl. Speaking of which, why did Sun have the whole thing with the pearl necklace? I wonder what that means.
I love that Watchmen quote, Bg. It's perfect for the Others, you're right.
And I know that this is heretical, but the more I think about it, the more I think that Danielle really may have had parts of her memory erased and replaced with the story she tells. There's no proof of this, of course, but my new theory is that she was one of the original leaders or founders, and broke from the group to help a group of the kids (including our castaways - I know, I know, roll your eyes) escape. Remember how we used to go over and over her lines, and nothing we could come up with as a scenario really fit? Just think about some of them, and the inconsistencies, from that angle.
-She does know the others, very well, but doesn't know she knows.
-The broadcast, made during the escape, before her memory was erased, was as she was waiting for rescue with the kids.
-Kidnapping Aaron, and waiting on the beach in vain with him after she saw the black smoke, was a complete waste of time.
-the traveling eight months pregnant, thge missing boat, the delivering the baby herself...all a story she was conditioned to repeat
"See you in the next life, if not in this one" sparked a vague memory - it's what they tell people before they deprogram them
-she was conditioned to be violently opposed to the idea of rescue, at all costs (that's what she did wrong in the first place)
-even this: "The firing pin has been removed. Robert didn't notice it was gone when I shot him..." Maybe the firing pin in the gun she used had always been gone, and she never really killed anyone, she was just told she did
I know you're not of the conspiracy persuasion, but just consider it.
(Oops, forgot to replace that one last piece of my frozen head)
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 10:13 AM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Spoiler talk
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
Oh dear me! In light of the spoiler about Juliet sucessfully impregnating a male mouse, what if Ben's tumor isn't really a tumor but a... gulp... baby? Maybe Jack's not doing a tumor removal but a... gulp.... Caesarian?
D
O
N
E
Done
(head re-explodes)
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 04 @ 10:19 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
(head re-explodes)
Lucky! Oh dear! Help is on the way....BG grab the mop, I'll get the wigs and smelling salts...
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