Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:49 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Morning, Joopers,
Whew! Kate and Sawyer- successful escape!
And Jack was given something he always needs:
a Damsel in Distress.
Hi Island Lilly, excellent point about Jack now having something he always needs: a Damsel in Distress. Your idea goes a long way to explain her character's presence in the show. If Jack learns of her backstory and her desperation to leave the island, he'll have something to fix.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:52 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
Great connections you've made here, Captain. I wouldn't have connected the Jacob story to ACO in a million years. Nice!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:55 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
Seek: I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap
Good question, Captain. It did seem strange that he was in the building, didn't it? I'm guessing he was confirming the results of Juliet's work for Mittelwork, er, I mean Mittelos.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:10 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Bg : 1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
Could the anagram have been the Bioscience company, Mittelos ? Time Lost or Lost Time ? As for it providing a clue to Adam and Eve, maybe the drugs/vaccines increases or ages people and the skeletons in the cave are actually younger than what Jack had said they were ( like Juliet thought that the picture of the womb was of an older woman but it was not )? Maybe they were injected with the vaccines (produced by the company) to heal them from the damage that was happening inside their bodies but it rapidly aged them (from the outside) and they died ? Lost their lives = Lost Time ???
Hi Seek, I think the consensus is that the anagram was Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost). I think the other major easter eggs were:
* The name, Edmund Burke
*The Clockwork Orange references
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
more on this later
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:13 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
Apparently so, Zen. Like you, I've been collapsed on the floor. I'm just now rousing.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:16 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
Zen: You're right! I forgot about that!
So you loose your sense of independence, and join the Others where everything is done for the Greater Good. Juliette's comments on free will, and her book club choice become all that more poignant!
I forgot about it, too. Good memory, Captain.
Zen, good connection with Juliet's comments about free will and about the greater good.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:19 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Could this be 'the room' that bea threatened Walt with?
Ms Klugh: Walt! You want me to put you in the room again? if the others put walt in a room like that - what kind of monsters are they?
i thought sawyers jawdropped overwhelmed reaction was really interesting
juliet arrived on the island around september 11, 2001
desmond said he had been in the hatch for three years - this means they arrived at about the same time
could juliet's arrival have had something to do with desmond's ship wreck?
Hi Sweet, I think it's a good possibility that Walt was in or near the same or a similar facility. Which raises the question of how he communicated via computer with Michael. Maybe his mind was expressing itself via the computer without him actually touching the keys or something.
Good question about Juliet's arrival coinciding or having a causal effect on Desmond's shipwreck. I don't know! But it seems plausible.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:20 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Whew! I think I'm caught up.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:36 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:39 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
LOL, Captain, no, I didn't much care for the music. Maybe if I were in a club sipping a cold drink, but not then, not there.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 04:19 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
bg: Did you REALLY tell them you wanted to know about Brendan and what he did with the key?
You are priceless! (in the best possible way).
You really were upset about the buddhist images? Was it their cavalier usage or their juxtaposition against other images of questionable acceptability? I confess to an interpretation of their usage in the ACO scene as little more than inclusion in a series of icons intended to drive the messages into the mind by association with archetypes.
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
Parallels? Dom reminds me a bit of the Malcolm McDowell character Alex. And there is the obvious NAME association to Danielle's daughter.
Speaking of whom, what is the consensus about Alex's relationship to Ben? Adopted? Defacto father? Was Ben in Danielle's party, engaging in a little adulteration? But she said she was already pregnant during the expedition. Perhaps Ben was active before the group left?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Sneaker, LOL, Yes, I told Touchstone I wanted to know about Brennon and that damn pesky key. It's one of the main reasons I started posting on the general board in the first place and one of the main reaons I keep watching the show - that and wanting to see Danielle's flashback episode, of course.
On another note, yes, I was very upset with the use of Buddhist images in what can only be termed brainwashing. In addition to the reasons I stated in my earlier post, another reason I'm upset is that the use of Buddhist iconography in that scene violates one of the very foundations of Buddhist thinking: it is never to be imposed upon someone.
On still another note, I haven't seen ACO in a long time. I'll have to rewatch it before I can make much of a contribution to its discussion.
As for Alex's paternity, I don't think there's a consensus. Some think Ben is the biological father, which calls into question everything Danielle has told us. Some, including myself, think that Ben is the "adoptive" father - that is, perhaps he raised her after she was taken from Danielle.
Either way, I don't think Alex knows who her mother is nor that she's alive. IMHO, as rebellious as Alex is, if she had any inkling her mother was nearby she would likely try to find and contact her. Thus, Ben has probably lied to Alex and made up some story about her mother being dead.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:22 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
I actually really love it too. But having not seen it in over 25 years and watching the brainwashing scene out of context made for a disturbing pre-breakfast experience this morning.
Dom really does sound like Malcolm. Doubt Charlie could handle a bit of the ultraviolence though. Doesn't have the yarbles for it.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:43 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:54 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:01 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:17 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
Hi Captain, I agree we need a Ben flashback - we have so little to go on, pre-crash. We know Juliet wasn't happy, and we know they sometimes had plumbing problems, and we know Ben was miffed about being "out of the book club."
Actually, those are all pretty mild problems. Maybe it was sort of idyllic.
gotta get some sleep
g'night
bg
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 02:43 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers. TGIF.
Anyone having luck connecting the easter eggs to the Adam & Eve mystery and to the upcoming mythology?
I'm not getting very far.
I think the name, Edmund Burke, and the Clockwork Orange references can both be connected with freewill and choice, and the role of the state apparatus in creating a "good" society - something we've seen playing out in the Other's society. Burke seems to imply that "evil" is a necessary component of a civilized society, although I'm fuzzy on his exact logic, while the ACO references are as clear as day:
Before Alex goes for his two weeks of Ludovico's Technique, the chaplain takes him aside and muses on the moral questions raised by this method of conditioning by which Alex will be forced to be good: "What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses the bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"
More puzzling, perhaps, is the structured mirroring of ACO and how it might relate to LOST. Are we now in part II of LOST and part III will mirror (in an opposite kind of way) part I? Does this somehow get us back to Adam and Eve?
...Parts I and III imitate each other. Part III is truly a mirror image of Part I: both identical and reversed. In Part III, Alex encounters all the characters of Part I but finds himself in a position relative to each directly opposite than his position at the beginning of the novel. In Part I, Alex and his friends beat up the helpless old man who runs into them coming back from the public library; in Part III, Alex runs into this same old man and is, humiliatingly, beaten up by him and his old cronies...
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/clockworkorange/section22.rhtml
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:08 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
These two easter eggs:
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
are troubling to me in that I had hoped to avoid having to think about any sort of time loops or time distortions. But it's pretty well been shoved in my face, so here we go. Grab the tinfoil.
The hatch implosion created a tiny, mini-black hole through which Desmond traveled and emerged. The mini-black hole's creation was detected by the two watchdogs. Further, it created a small time distortion, a hiccup or wrinkle, if you will, on the island, and finally, it gave (or enhanced) Desmond's precog ability. The small wrinkle in time could be the "catastrophically screwed" part.
On July 18, 2004, Stephen Hawkings revised his thinking about Black Holes. Previously he thought that anything entering into the vicinity of a black hole would be sucked in and stay there forever, giving off no clue as to its existence, but in 2004 he revised his thinking that info could escape from black holes.
According to his new concept of black hole model these holes never completely destroy everything that falls in. Instead, they continue to emit radiation for extended periods, eventually open up to reveal the information within them. He explained ‘The black holes only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell in, so we can be sure of the past and we can predict the future.’
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/ajoy/hawking.htm
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:46 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Interesting result when I googled "3 years, 2 months, 28 days." Probably irrelevant, but you never know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_Of_Things_To_Come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Years_Two_Months_Eleven_Days
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 05:08 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good morning Joopers!
TGIF!
Backgammon--don't know if the TPTB read this thread about Punk Rockers a while back. Maybe it is a shout out! I'll see if I can find the link and add it.
Whiney Punk Rockers
Message was edited by: Zen to add link
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 07:41 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:51 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
Did the producers confirm that is correct anagram?
It could also read 'EM--Lost it.'
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:54 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
That would be cool.
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:08 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I keep forgetting to write how much I am enjoying Tom. He's fast becoming one of my favorite characters. I have a feeling he is going to turn out to have been an actor in another life.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:50 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:18 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Did anyone get a look at the Dharma logo sitting on Rachael's side table at the beginning of the last ep? There are no screen caps for that scene on LostMedia.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:32 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
LOL, that sounds like the geek boys.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 12:11 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
Zen sneaks into the thread and exclaims "Holy Time/Space Warp Batman!"
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