3 Watchmen Discussion from Joop pt 13 Feb 2007

Forum Home Lost Lost: General JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
Replies: 1004 Last post: Feb 14 @ 03:02 AM by: back_gammon
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 14 @ 01:21 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
From The American Museum of Natural History site:http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/time/index.php...Most of us think we understand time. Time is what clocks measure, ticking off the steady beat of seconds, minutes and hours. Although our wristwatches may run fast or slow because of mechanical flaws, we believe that there is some "master clock" for the universe to which, in an ideal world, all clocks could be synchronized. The notion of the regular passage of time is so ingrained in human consciousness that our languages have developed special ways to distinguish events that occur in the past, present or future. And until Einstein, most physicists also accepted the idea of universal time without question.When Einstein proposed that the speed of light is constant for all observers, he introduced a conundrum. How could different observers measure the same speed for light when the observers themselves were moving at different speeds? Speed is a measure of distance divided by time (for example, kilometers per hour or miles per hour). Einstein realized that for speed to remain constant, intervals of time and distance would have to change in a way that kept their ratio exactly the same.Einstein's answer overturned long-held ideas about the nature of time as a steady, continuous progression of events from past to present to future. Although it's hard to believe, there is no single "master clock" for the entire universe. Time does not progress at the same rate for everyone, everywhere. Instead, Einstein showed that how fast time progresses depends on how fast the clock measuring time is moving. The faster an object travels, the more slowly time passes for that object, as measured by a stationary observer. Perhaps even more astonishing, one person's past could theoretically be another's future—which is why Einstein described the past, present and future as "persistent illusions."
Hi Zen, I'm done with chapter 4 and your post is falling into place in the context of the story, especially the last few lines you've bolded. Tinfoil hat alert and book talk courtesy space!I know there's not a snowball's chance in tropical island hell that this is going to develop on the show, but it would be wild if the "big" thing the chain-gang is working on is the digging of a hatch - they're in a time loop thingy like our Dr. Manhattan, and they're back in the 1970's just as ground is being broken for the hatches and they're also in 2004 in captivity at the same time. Only unlike Dr. Manhattan, they don't realize it. LOL, I know. Too many insurmountable plot holes for this to happen. But it's kinda fun to think about in terms of them all being catastrophically screwed. What could be more CS than to be living past, present, and future all at once without hindsight or foresight to help you make good decisions? Oh dear me!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 14 @ 03:49 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
LOL, I know. Too many insurmountable plot holes for this to happen. But it's kinda fun to think about in terms of them all being catastrophically screwed. What could be more CS than to be living past, present, and future all at once without hindsight or foresight to help you make good decisions? Oh dear me!
Or having hind/foresight but still being helpless to alter events--Like Desmond says in one of the latest previews, 'No matter what I do, you're going to die.'
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 14 @ 03:52 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Or having hind/foresight but still being helpless to alter events--Like Desmond says in one of the latest previews, 'No matter what I do, you're going to die.'
Hi Captain, excellent point about being helpless to alter events. That would be awful. No wonder Desmond was drinking.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 14 @ 04:49 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I saw Bruce's Old Spice commercial twice last night, once on Comedy Central, then on MTV as I was surfing by. So they are targeting the male 20-35 demographic apparently. I have seen the future and it smells like my grandpa!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 14 @ 05:16 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Hi Zen, I'm done with chapter 4 and your post is falling into place in the context of the story, especially the last few lines you've bolded. Tinfoil hat alert and book talk courtesy space!I know there's not a snowball's chance in tropical island hell that this is going to develop on the show, but it would be wild if the "big" thing the chain-gang is working on is the digging of a hatch - they're in a time loop thingy like our Dr. Manhattan, and they're back in the 1970's just as ground is being broken for the hatches and they're also in 2004 in captivity at the same time. Only unlike Dr. Manhattan, they don't realize it. LOL, I know. Too many insurmountable plot holes for this to happen. But it's kinda fun to think about in terms of them all being catastrophically screwed. What could be more CS than to be living past, present, and future all at once without hindsight or foresight to help you make good decisions? Oh dear me!
I really like this idea! It would be the ultimate CS!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 03:58 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I saw Bruce's Old Spice commercial twice last night, once on Comedy Central, then on MTV as I was surfing by. So they are targeting the male 20-35 demographic apparently. I have seen the future and it smells like my grandpa!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 04:01 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen, speaking of the ultimate CS, what are you making of the story within a story? The comic that a guy by the newstand is reading? The island, the raft, etc sounds very familiar, eh?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 04:03 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers. Happy MLK Monday.In case you didn't see it yet, Dark UFO has posted a link to the web telecast. http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/01/webcast-2007-emmy-lost-cast-discussion.html
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 06:31 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I just rewatched the telecast and I was struck by the comment about mistakes people make when theorizing. Cuse, I believe, stated that not enough of the story has unfolded yet for people to "get" the whole thing. Further, they reiterated that there's not one single explanation for what the island is; things can't be summarized in a single sentence. "It is not one thing that is happening on the show."Very interesting. What in the world will unfold next!? I wonder if it has to do with the badder bad aka the scarier scary we've been promised? Or Desmond's prescience? Or maybe something totally wild and out of the blue like the big foot?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 07:07 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Zen, speaking of the ultimate CS, what are you making of the story within a story? The comic that a guy by the newstand is reading? The island, the raft, etc sounds very familiar, eh?
Watchmen spoiler talk belowYes, the guy reading the comic, and how that story is within the main story. Of course you could also say that Dr. Manhattan's time transcendence is a story, as is the story of the original Minute Men, and the stories of the actual characters and how they became the masked heros is yet another story, as is the story of Russia's invasion of Afghanastan, as is the final outcome of the story. I actually read Absolute Watchmen and it has some additional info, such as Moore's description of his panels. End of Watchmen spoiler talk
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 07:18 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Watchmen spoiler talk belowYes, the guy reading the comic, and how that story is within the main story. Of course you could also say that Dr. Manhattan's time transcendence is a story, as is the story of the original Minute Men, and the stories of the actual characters and how they became the masked heros is yet another story, as is the story of Russia's invasion of Afghanastan, as is the final outcome of the story. I actually read Absolute Watchmen and it has some additional info, such as Moore's description of his panels. End of Watchmen spoiler talk
Zen: Watchmen talk:Zen, I hadn't thought of it quite like you put it, but I love your take about all the different stories within the story. Very LOST-like, IMHO. I'm on chapter 5 and I can't believe how it just gets better and better. done
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 08:38 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
I took this off an article that was posted on Dadio's Thread:SPOILER"One reporter also asked Lindelof what "Lost" was about -- a reasonable question but not one you usually hear a reporter who's been watching faithfully ask about a show in its third season. "This is a show about people who are metaphorically lost in their lives, who get on an airplane and crash on an island and become physically lost on planet Earth, and once they are able to metaphorically find themselves in their lives again, then they will be able to physically find themselves in the world again," Lindelof responded."Wow! So my bardo plane theory might still hold true, as well might the modern day allegory!ENDOFSPOILERTALK
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 09:13 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen: Wow! So my bardo plane theory might still hold true, as well might the modern day allegory!I sure hope so, Zen, and it would be the coolest thing ever shown on television. Further, if they're all dead and experiencing one of those three particular bardo states, it would sure make a lot of sense of what's happening with the visions and the smoke.http://www.deathreference.com/Sy-Vi/Tibetan-Book-of-the-Dead.html
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 11:27 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Zen: Wow! So my bardo plane theory might still hold true, as well might the modern day allegory!I sure hope so, Zen, and it would be the coolest thing ever shown on television. Further, if they're all dead and experiencing one of those three particular bardo states, it would sure make a lot of sense of what's happening with the visions and the smoke.http://www.deathreference.com/Sy-Vi/Tibetan-Book-of-the-Dead.html
BG, If Lost is going the Bardo Plane Theory route, (keeping my fingers crossed) it really would explain all the inner struggles, the ulimate judgments, even Smokie can be viewed as one of the demons you face (which really is only a psychological reflection of our dark side). From your weblink: The Bardo Thodol presupposes a cosmology of human experience in which existence is viewed as inherently fluid and impermanent, as involving a series of stages, of which death is merely one. The mind or soul continues to live after death, undergoing a series of experiences before rebirth.I ditto your thought about the bardo plane theory being the coolest thing ever shown on television.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 12:09 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
BG, If Lost is going the Bardo Plane Theory route, (keeping my fingers crossed) it really would explain all the inner struggles, the ulimate judgments, even Smokie can be viewed as one of the demons you face (which really is only a psychological reflection of our dark side). From your weblink: The Bardo Thodol presupposes a cosmology of human experience in which existence is viewed as inherently fluid and impermanent, as involving a series of stages, of which death is merely one. The mind or soul continues to live after death, undergoing a series of experiences before rebirth.I ditto your thought about the bardo plane theory being the coolest thing ever shown on television.
Zen, your Bardo theory is the only one in the universe that comes anywhere close to what Damon said in the quote above.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 02:41 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Michael Bolton selling refrigerators. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_8Zo1PE_Y&mode=user&search=
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 04:08 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I read a rumor that David Bowie is interested in writing a rock opera based on Watchmen. No evidence to be found if this is true. Just thought zen would enjoy this tidbit
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 15 @ 05:07 PM
by: LostDuckie7 (30 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 17, 2005
I read a rumor that David Bowie is interested in writing a rock opera based on Watchmen. No evidence to be found if this is true. Just thought zen would enjoy this tidbit
Darren Aronofsky claimed this because he was talking to someone about doing it also. Here's the link:http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5043
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:10 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I read a rumor that David Bowie is interested in writing a rock opera based on Watchmen. No evidence to be found if this is true. Just thought zen would enjoy this tidbit
Oh my!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:13 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Darren Aronofsky claimed this because he was talking to someone about doing it also. Here's the link:http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5043
Oh dear!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:15 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers. Happy Tuesday. 22 Days!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 07:57 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
I read a rumor that David Bowie is interested in writing a rock opera based on Watchmen. No evidence to be found if this is true. Just thought zen would enjoy this tidbit
I can just see it now, a scene where the original Minute Men are having one of their reunions, and the background music playing is Golden Years.... LOL
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 10:00 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I can just see it now, a scene where the original Minute Men are having one of their reunions, and the background music playing is Golden Years.... LOL
We can be HeroesJust for one day...
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 10:15 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
We can be HeroesJust for one day...
Watchmen Rock Opera (spoilerish, don't read until you've read the book)When The Owl & Rorschach learn of Ozymandias' plan for NY, background music is heard...We passed upon the stairs,We spoke of was and whenAlthough I wasnt thereHe said I was his friendWhich came as a surpriseI spoke into his eyes -- I thought you died aloneA long long time agoOh no, not me,We never lost control,Youre face to face,With the man who sold the world...End of Watchmen spoilerish rock opera
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 10:26 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Watchmen Rock Opera We'll have to do a full blown bad fanfic opera after everyone has finished reading the book!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 01:33 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I can just see it now, a scene where the original Minute Men are having one of their reunions, and the background music playing is Golden Years.... LOL
LOL, Zen, now you've done it! I can't even look at the book without hearing a David Bowie tune. Watchmen rock opera! With your long blond hair and your eyes of blueThe only thing I ever got from youWas Sorrow - SorrowYou're acting funny, try to spend my moneyOut there playing your high class gamesOf Sorrow - Sorrow
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 01:44 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Watchmen Rock Opera We'll have to do a full blown bad fanfic opera after everyone has finished reading the book!
Yes! I love this idea! I love opera, and the idea of a bad fanfic opera is making me sweaty and giddy. Say, doesn't this guy look sort of Desmond-ish? Maybe we could throw in a scene of Desmond in the hatch painting a portrait of Penny Widmore instead of that wretched mural. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9KtmXJJ0Yw
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:13 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Just found this intersting article, and so, how should I say it?, Lost related? LOL New 'Hobbit' Galaxies Discovered Around Milky Way A recent sky survey has turned up eight new members in our Local Group of galaxies, including a new class of ultra-faint "hobbit" galaxies and what might be the smallest galaxy ever discovered.The Local Group is a collection of about 40 galaxies, of which the Milky Way and Andromeda are the dominant members. The rest of the galaxies are mostly small satellites known as "dwarf galaxies" that are gravitationally bound to these two galaxies. The Large and Small Magellanic Clouds are two of the Milky Way's better known dwarf galaxies.The new galaxies were detected over the past two years as part of the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS-II) and presented last week at the 209th meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Seattle.Seven of the new galaxies are gravitationally bound to the Milky Way, while the eighth appears to float freely in space, beyond our galaxy's grasp.The new Local Group members are even smaller and fainter than other known dwarf galaxies, with luminosities ranging from only a thousand to at most a few hundred thousand times that of our Sun."They seem to be much fainter than anyone suspected galaxies could be before," said study team member Daniel Zucker of Cambridge University. "So rather than dwarf galaxies, we should perhaps call them 'hobbit galaxies.'"The eighth and most recently spotted galaxy is in many ways the most interesting. Dubbed Leo T, it is located about 1.4 million light-years away from Earth, so far away that it floats freely in space, unperturbed by the Milky Way.Unlike the other hobbit galaxies, Leo T includes both old and young stars. It also contains large amounts of neutral hydrogen gas--a prime ingredient of star formation--suggesting it is still an active stellar nursery.Because of its great distance, Leo T is also the dimmest of the new hobbits. "This is basically the smallest, faintest star-forming galaxy known, by orders of magnitude," Zucker said.Current galaxy formation theories predict our Milky Way should be surrounded by a swarm of smaller satellite galaxies. But until the new survey, only twelve had been identified. Astronomers have dubbed this issue the "missing satellite problem."The new galaxies could go a long way toward solving this problem and might represent just the tip of a cosmic iceberg, the researchers say. Oh my! We've got to stop the Dom invasion before it starts! LOL
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:22 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen's quote: "Unlike the other hobbit galaxies, Leo T includes both old and young stars. It also contains large amounts of neutral hydrogen gas--a prime ingredient of star formation--suggesting it is still an active stellar nursery.Because of its great distance, Leo T is also the dimmest of the new hobbits. "This is basically the smallest, faintest star-forming galaxy known, by orders of magnitude," Zucker said.Current galaxy formation theories predict our Milky Way should be surrounded by a swarm of smaller satellite galaxies. But until the new survey, only twelve had been identified. Astronomers have dubbed this issue the "missing satellite problem."The new galaxies could go a long way toward solving this problem and might represent just the tip of a cosmic iceberg, the researchers say..."Zen: Oh my! We've got to stop the Dom invasion before it starts! LOL Good lord, did Damon and JJ write this? *missing satellite problems*active stellar nurseries*Leo T is the 8th *hobbit galaxies*tips of cosmic icebergs*swarms of smaller galaxiesThis is very LOST!Message was edited by: back_gammon added italics
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Jan 16 @ 02:29 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Book talk:LMAO! Remember the scene with Locke V Polar Bear and Locke was armed with a can of hair-spray and a match? The same spray can scenario appears in chapter 5. done
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