Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:20 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
When I googled time/buddhism I found this site where His Holiness, the Dalai Lama answers the question what is the concept of time in Buddhism.
Q: What is the concept of time in Buddhism?
A: Excuse me, I misunderstood the Tibetan translation of the question; in our language the words for "demon" and "time" are pronounced almost identically, and I was about to give you a talk about what a demon is from a Buddhist point of view!
Regarding the Buddhist concept of time, our philosophy has. adopted several positions. The Sautrantika school, also known as the "Holders of Discourse," affirms that all phenomena and events exist only in the present moment. For this school, past and future are nothing other than simple concepts, simple mental constructs. As for the Madhyamika-Prasangika school, the Consequence School of the Middle Way, it generally explains time in terms of relativity, as an abstract entity developed by the mind on the basis of an imputation, the continuity of an event or phenomenon. This philosophical view describes, therefore, an abstract concept whose function is dependent on the continuum of phenomena. From this point on, to try to explain time as an autonomous entity, independent from an existing object, proves impossible. That time is a relative phenomenon and can claim no independent status is quite clear; I often give the example of external objects which can be easily conceived of in terms of the past or future, but of which the very present seems inconceivable. We can divide time into centuries, decades, years, days, hours, minutes, and seconds. But as the second is also divisible into multiple parts, milliseconds for example, we can easily lose our grasp of the notion of present time!
As for consciousness, it has neither past nor future and knows only present moments; it is the continuum of a present moment being transformed into another present moment, whereas with external objects the present disappears in favour of notions of past and future. But further pursuit of this logic will lead to absurdity, because to situate past and future we need a frame of reference which, in this case, is the present, and we have just lost its trace in fractions of milliseconds.. . .
http://hhdl.dharmakara.net/hhdlquotes3.html#time
TBC
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:26 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
One final thought, taken from a website where the Four Noble Truths are explained:
The Third Noble Truth is that suffering can be overcome and happiness attained. This is perhaps the most important of the Four Noble Truths because in it the Buddha reassures us that true happiness and contentment are possible. When we give up useless craving and learn to live each day at a time, enjoying without restless wanting the experiences that life offers us, patiently enduring the problems that life involves without fear, hatred and anger, then we become happy and free. Then, and only then, do we being to live fully. Because we are no longer obsessed with satisfying our own selfish wants, we find we have so much time to help others fulfil their needs. This state is called Nirvana. We are free from all psychological suffering as well. This is called Final Nirvana
What or where is Nirvana?
It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even to think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal. Because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of profound happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.
Dp 204
But is there any proof that such a dimension exists?
No, there is not. But its existence can be inferred. If there is a dimension where time and space do operate and there is such a dimension - the world we experience, then we can infer that there is a dimension where time and space do not operate - Nirvana. Again, even though we cannot prove Nirvana exists, we have the Buddha's word that it does exist. He tells us:
"There is an. Unborn, a Not-become, a Not-made, a Not-compounded. If there were not, this Unborn, Not become, Not-made, Not-compounded, there could not be made any escape from what is born, become, made, and compounded. But since there is this Unborn, Not become, Not-made, Not-compounded, therefore is there made known an escape from what is born, become, made, and compounded."
Ud. 80
We will know it when we attain it. Until that time, we can still practice
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 07:48 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen: What or where is Nirvana?
It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even to think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal. Because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of profound happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.
Zen, I love your post. Thanks so much for transcribing this. It clearly links Nirvana back with the audio, "Only fools are enslaved by time and space."
If I overlook the inappropriateness of Buddhist teaching being used in such an off-hand way, I think it makes sense, perhaps, that Karl would be "exposed" to this philosophy.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 08:17 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi all. Quick Danielle fly-by. Bg, I realize you hate the idea of Danielle having forgotten her past, but the idea is completely growing on me. Someont on the Fuselage had an excellent point about the maps: thye're made from the perspective and vantage point of someone who has been to Alkatraz, especially the southern elevation. Then I started thinking, I'll bet the obsessiional notations and, especailly, the song lyrics -- so mournful and personal -- are her attempts to remember the past that's been taken from her! She's heartbroken, but doesn't fully understand why. Anyway, I know you think it's heretical, but I don't at all. No one's saying she's lying. I think it makes her absolutley more poignant -- I love the idea.
Oh, Danielle!
Hi Lucky, I remember we discussed this on the old Danielle thread - how the perspective of the map with the elevation view was that of someone who had been off the island at some distance. IMHO, it could very well have been the view from Alcatraz. However, at the time, if memory is correct, we speculated that the map with the elevation view may have been originally from the Black Rock. This speculation arose, I think, because of the aged look of the maps and because not all the handwriting matched. Am I remembering it right about the different handwriting on the notations? It's been a long time since we discussed this.
As for part of Danielle's memory being missing, I put the idea forth about a year ago that she could have missing memories as a result of being drugged ala Claire. However, IMHO, the drug idea, or a brainwashing as you're now suggesting, seems somewhat inconsistent with her name: Rousseau.
Facing criticism in Switzerland – his house in Motiers was stoned in 1765 – he took refuge with the philosopher David Hume in Great Britain. Isolated at Wootton on the borders of Derbyshire and Staffordshire, Rousseau suffered a serious decline in his mental health and began to experience paranoid fantasies about plots against him involving Hume and others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Rousseau
I agree that some of the notations were very personal and showed her attempt to make sense of what was going on, but again, I think this can be explained by the philosopher, Rousseaus's invention of a more personal autobiography, one that reflected musings and ramblings, and does not in itself indicate proof of a brainwashing.
Still, many mysteries exist around Danielle and I both dread and look forward to her flashback. As I've stated numerous times, once I find out what happened 16 years ago and why Brennon took those damn pesky keys I'll no longer have reason to watch the show.
Wait. Now there's Ben and his backstory. I guess I can't leave anytime soon.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 08:20 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Uh-oh! I just anagrammed "Mittelos Bioscience" and here's what popped out:
To imbecile sections
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 08:54 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Okay, I haven't had any coffee yet, so this going to be really a rambling of my thoughts.....
The point where time and space don't exist, (Nirvana) could be likened to the Tao, where all things issue from it, all things return to it (Tao Te Ching #52), or could be likened to the point where nothing becomes something (the interchangeability of mass = energy), could be likened to the zero point, where anything is possible, because everything is in existence in potentia.
So could the Others be studying potentia, and need to use the psychic abilities of special people (i.e., Walt, etc.)?
Zen's head explodes.....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 09:01 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Okay, I haven't had any coffee yet, so this going to be really a rambling of my thoughts.....
The point where time and space don't exist, (Nirvana) could be likened to the Tao, where all things issue from it, all things return to it (Tao Te Ching #52), or could be likened to the point where nothing becomes something (the interchangeability of mass = energy), could be likened to the zero point, where anything is possible, because everything is in existence in potentia.
So could the Others be studying potentia, and need to use the psychic abilities of special people (i.e., Walt, etc.)?
Zen's head explodes.....
Zen, if I've understood what you're saying, I think the answer is yes. The Others hope to do something with time - stop it, recapture it, find it, or most likely, they want to transcend it and arrive at a point where everything is always already in existence, where everything is potential, yet has already happened, even while it's happening right now.
bg's head explodes
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 09:58 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Wait, I thought Rachel lived alone in the dingy place near the beach with Ethan crawling the halls. In the opening scene (night) didn't Juliet tell Rachel she wished she'd come stay with her?
Then the preggers reveal (day) happened at Juliet's high-rise condo?
You are most likely right. I thought it was the same play because of the view out the window. I will watch the scene again later
Zen & BG--Yow! You've been hard at work this morning! I've got lots of reading to do...
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 10:31 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
In the pre show, Carlton mentioned that the island (or did he say 'the show'?) is a Rube Goldberg machine.
From Wikipedia--
A Rube Goldberg machine or device is any exceedingly complex apparatus that performs a very simple task in a very indirect and convoluted way. Rube devised such pataphysical devices. The best examples of his machines have an anticipation factor: the fact that something so wacky is happening can only be topped by it happening in a suspenseful manner.
The term also applies as a classification for a generally over-complicated apparatus or software. It first appeared in Webster's Third New International Dictionary with the definition, "accomplishing by extremely complex roundabout means what actually or seemingly could be done simply."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg
some examples of his work--
http://www.rube-goldberg.com/
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 10:54 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Captain, thanks for bringing this up. I've had it in the back of my mind and been wanting to talk about it. If memory is correct, Cuse said "the show' is a Rube Goldberg machine.
After constructing this elaborately crazy thing for 4 or 5 seasons, do you think maybe the final episode will be when they drop the last ball or something? The ball that makes all the parts of the Rube Goldberg machine go into motion?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 12:51 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Just had a synchronicity moment. Picked up Parallel Worlds and turned to this phrase:
"But if electrons can exist in parallel states hovering between existence and nonexistence, then why can't the universe? After all, at one point the universe was smaller than an electron." Michio Kaku
Twilight Zone music starts to blare...........
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 01:37 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=84150&fullsize=1
THE KALACHAKRA MANDALA
Everything in this mandala is the symbolic representation of some aspect of the Kalachakra deity and the deity's universe. There are 722 deities in the mandala which symbolise various manifestations of aspects of consciousness and reality, all part of the ultimate wisdom of the Kalachakra deity. Understanding and interpreting all of the symbols included in the mandala would be like reading the Kalachakra texts, which contains a vast range of teachings from cosmology to epistemology to psychology.
The Kalachakra Tantra is interpreted at three levels referred to as external, internal and alternative. The external concerns the laws of time and space of this physical world and accordingly deals with astronomy, astrology and mathematics. The internal concerns the elements and structure of the human body, including its energy system. The alternative is the doctrine, path and fruit of the actual meditational deity and its circular mandala abode.
The Kalachakra deity resides in the centre of the mandala. His palace consists of our mandala, one within another: the mandala of body, the mandala of speech, that of mind, and the very centre, wisdom and great bliss.
The palace is divided into four quadrants each with walls, gates, and a centre. The colours are specific representations of the elements and mental types. Black, in the east, is associated with the element of winds. The south is red, its elements is fire. The west is yellow, associated with the element of earth, and the north is white, represent water.
The square palace of the 722 deities is seated upon the first concentric circles, the first of which of which represents the earth. The other circles, represent water, fire, wind, space, and consciousness extend beyond the wall of the palace. The outer circles, a representation of the cosmos, is a source of Tibetan astrology. The ten wrathful deities who reside in one of the outer, concentric circles of the mandala serve as its protectors.
The Kalachakra sand mandala is dedicated to peace and physical balance, both for individual and for the world, thanks to the deities carefully among minute human, animal and floral forms, abstract pictographs, and the Sanskrit syllables that comprises the mandala's design.
Although depicted here on a flat surface, the mandala is actually three-dimensional, being a five-storeyed "divine mansion", at the centre of which stands the Kalachakra deity the manifest state of Enlightenment.
A person who simply sees this mandala many feel peace on many levels. According to the Dalai Lama, the Kalachakra deities create a favourable atmosphere, reducing tension and violence in the world. "It is a way of planting a seed, and the seed will have karmic effect. One doesn't need to be present at the Kalachakra ceremony in order to receive its benefits," he explains.
http://www.tibet.com/Buddhism/kala1.html
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 04:38 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, thanks for bringing this up. I've had it in the back of my mind and been wanting to talk about it. If memory is correct, Cuse said "the show' is a Rube Goldberg machine.
After constructing this elaborately crazy thing for 4 or 5 seasons, do you think maybe the final episode will be when they drop the last ball or something? The ball that makes all the parts of the Rube Goldberg machine go into motion?
The machine has been in motion since the first show. The catch phrase 'Everything happens for a reason' made us think the show was a mystery to be solved like
1 + 1 + 1 = 3
when actually it was a series of unfortunate events like
Kate + murder + airplane = sex in a bear cage
Not something you can predict, but somehow fated.
So, really, all conspiracy theories are dead for me. Even the 'Juliet made the bus hit her ex' is highly unlikely.
Juliet's ex + bus + Alpert = 3 years, 2 months, 28 days of forced smiles and trying not to scream
It's all a Rube Goldbergian Interconnected Cosmic Fate Machine.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:03 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen: ...A person who simply sees this mandala many feel peace on many levels. According to the Dalai Lama, the Kalachakra deities create a favourable atmosphere, reducing tension and violence in the world. "It is a way of planting a seed, and the seed will have karmic effect. One doesn't need to be present at the Kalachakra ceremony in order to receive its benefits," he explains.
http://www.tibet.com/Buddhism/kala1.html
Nice work, Zen. Excellent!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
The machine has been in motion since the first show. The catch phrase 'Everything happens for a reason' made us think the show was a mystery to be solved like
1 + 1 + 1 = 3
when actually it was a series of unfortunate events like
Kate + murder + airplane = sex in a bear cage
Not something you can predict, but somehow fated.
So, really, all conspiracy theories are dead for me. Even the 'Juliet made the bus hit her ex' is highly unlikely.
Juliet's ex + bus + Alpert = 3 years, 2 months, 28 days of forced smiles and trying not to scream
It's all a Rube Goldbergian Interconnected Cosmic Fate Machine.
LOL, Captain, well said! I couldn't agree more. Brilliant math equations. Mind if I try some?
Jack + Alcoholic father + airplane = Playing poker on a beach for papayas.
Locke (-) (minus sign) one kidney + an orange slice = trapped under a blast door staring at a map painted with fabric softener.
This could be addictive!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:21 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself-Well...How did I get here?
Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
From the Talking Heads, "Stop Making Sense."
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:24 PM
by: marbalbc (472 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Hello Joopers! May I interrupt a moment to ask a question?
You all followed the Lost Experience, correct? Can someone confirm to me that Thomas Mittelwerk left Hanso Foundation voluntarily or otherwise? Seems I saw some mention of this at some point, but can't really remember.
Appreciate it!
Message was edited for spelling
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:27 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
LOL, Captain, well said! I couldn't agree more. Mind if I try some of your math?
Jack + Alcoholic father + airplane = Playing poker on a beach for papayas.
Locke (-) (minus sign) one kidney + an orange slice = trapped under a blast door staring at a map painted with fabric softener.
This could be addictive!
Lost Mathematics!
Sayid + 4 toed statue + Other trap = (negative)sailboat
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:32 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hello Joopers! May I interrupt a moment to ask a question?
You all followed the Lost Experience, correct? Can someone confirm to me that Thomas Mittelwerk left Hanso Foundation voluntarily or otherwise? Seems I saw some mention of this at some point, but can't really remember.
Appreciate it!
Message was edited for spelling
Hi marb, if memory is correct, Thomas Mittelwerk left Hanso Foundation when Rachel Blake blew the whistle and the police arrested him. He escaped, vowing we had not seen the last of him.
I'm digging for corroborating transcripts or video, but I'm pretty sure that's roughly how it went.
Here we go:
After video evidence (the Sri Lanka Video) was released of Mittelwerk admitting to his plans, the authorities attempted to aprehend Mittelwerk. However, he managed to escape with the virus, and in the process blew up the Hanso Foundation headquarters. After Alvar Hanso released a statement, Mittelwerk hacked the website feed with his own statement of:
You've taken the battle, but that's all it was, a battle. Humanity needs me, now more than ever. I have the virus, I have the will, and I will not fail.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Thomas_Mittelwerk
Message was edited by: back_gammon
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:39 PM
by: marbalbc (472 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Thanks BG. The reason I was asking was because of Mittelos Bio-science. I wondered if Mittelwerk had left Hanso to form his own company, or if MBS falls under the Hanso Foundation umbrella.
PS - am I spelling Mittelwerk wrong? Is it Mittlewerk? I've seen both and don't know which is correct.
***
Thank you so much, BG. You were editing while I was replying. Appreciate the link!
Message was edited by: marbalbc
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Lost Mathematics!
Sayid + 4 toed statue + Other trap = (negative)sailboat
^^^^
Claire + bun in the oven + fortune teller = crashed on an island (-) hairbrush.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:46 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
^^^^
Claire + bun in the oven + fortune teller = crashed on an island (-) hairbrush.
Desmond (-) pants =
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:46 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
BG: If I overlook the inappropriateness of Buddhist teaching being used in such an off-hand way, I think it makes sense, perhaps, that Karl would be "exposed" to this philosophy.
Your statement made me think of one of the many books I have. Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies & The Truth About Reality. This pretty much sums up Karl's rehabilitation (well maybe all except Smokie)
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:50 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Thanks BG. The reason I was asking was because of Mittelos Bio-science. I wondered if Mittelwerk had left Hanso to form his own company, or if MBS falls under the Hanso Foundation umbrella.
PS - am I spelling Mittelwerk wrong? Is it Mittlewerk? I've seen both and don't know which is correct.
***
Thank you so much, BG. You were editing while I was replying. Appreciate the link!
Message was edited by: marbalbc
Hi again, Marb, my pleasure.
I think the take-away from the LE was that Mittelwerk (yes, that's how it's spelled) was operating far outside the bounds of research ethics, criminal law, etc. Ostensibly, Hanso had turned over the reigns of the Hanso Foundation to Mitterlwerk some years in the past, and Hanso was either on the run or under house arrest while Mittelwerk was running things.
The question remains whether or not mad scientist Mittelwerk had altruistic - if insanely deluded - aims, or if he was out to make a buck.
I'm putting my money on Mittelos being connected with the Mittelwerk-run Hanso conglomerate, whether or not it is/was on the record as a Hanso company or not.
One thing to note. The LE and Mittelwerk's take down happened in 2006, so anything we see on the show, including flashbacks, would have happened while Mittelwerk was running amok with his mad scientific research projects.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 05:56 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Sawyer + Are You There God, It's Me Margaret = Harry Potter glasses
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:01 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Sawyer + Are You There God, It's Me Margaret = Harry Potter glasses
Hurley + hospital stay + Connect4 = lottery win (-) good luck + one-legged Australian woman
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:04 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
BG: If I overlook the inappropriateness of Buddhist teaching being used in such an off-hand way, I think it makes sense, perhaps, that Karl would be "exposed" to this philosophy.
Your statement made me think of one of the many books I have. Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies & The Truth About Reality. This pretty much sums up Karl's rehabilitation (well maybe all except Smokie)
Zen! Bingo! You are brilliant! This brief snippet from a review of "Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock..." I found on Amazon fits perfectly with the Karl scene.
Brad Warner combines often humorous hip punk attitude with a profound understanding of Zen. I particularly like his reference to "The Wisdom of No Escape".
And this:
The whole point about Zen is that it is anti-intellectual (the whole goal is to baffle the intellect and achieve direct seeing!)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hardcore-Zen-Monster-Movies-Reality/dp/086171380X
I've never heard of this book. Looks like I'll have to add it to my list of must reads. (Although I must confess I sort of prefer the more traditional tomes. )
Message was edited by: back_gammon oops, forgot the link
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:04 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Hurley + hospital stay + Connect4 = lottery win (-) good luck + one-legged Australian woman
Just Savin' the World + Hatch Implosion = 5 iron + Happy Baby Family - Agitated Charlie
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:07 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Zen math =
Captain math =
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 10 @ 06:08 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Zen! Bingo! You are brilliant! This brief snippet from a review of "Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock..." I found on Amazon fits perfectly with the Karl scene.
Brad Warner combines often humorous hip punk attitude with a profound understanding of Zen. I particularly like his reference to "The Wisdom of No Escape".
And this:
The whole point about Zen is that it is anti-intellectual (the whole goal is to baffle the intellect and achieve direct seeing!)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hardcore-Zen-Monster-Movies-Reality/dp/086171380X
I've never heard of this book. Looks like I'll have to add it to my list of must reads. (Although I must confess I sort of prefer the more traditional tomes. )
Message was edited by: back_gammon oops, forgot the link
This is a great read. It's an autobiography of Brad, if you will. He's really made this book interesting, fun and educational. Lots of personal stories, lots of zen treasures.
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Wednesday, October 31, 2007
21 Watchmen Discussion from Joop pt 13 Feb 2007
Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:49 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Morning, Joopers,
Whew! Kate and Sawyer- successful escape!
And Jack was given something he always needs:
a Damsel in Distress.
Hi Island Lilly, excellent point about Jack now having something he always needs: a Damsel in Distress. Your idea goes a long way to explain her character's presence in the show. If Jack learns of her backstory and her desperation to leave the island, he'll have something to fix.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:52 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
Great connections you've made here, Captain. I wouldn't have connected the Jacob story to ACO in a million years. Nice!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:55 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
Seek: I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap
Good question, Captain. It did seem strange that he was in the building, didn't it? I'm guessing he was confirming the results of Juliet's work for Mittelwork, er, I mean Mittelos.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:10 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Bg : 1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
Could the anagram have been the Bioscience company, Mittelos ? Time Lost or Lost Time ? As for it providing a clue to Adam and Eve, maybe the drugs/vaccines increases or ages people and the skeletons in the cave are actually younger than what Jack had said they were ( like Juliet thought that the picture of the womb was of an older woman but it was not )? Maybe they were injected with the vaccines (produced by the company) to heal them from the damage that was happening inside their bodies but it rapidly aged them (from the outside) and they died ? Lost their lives = Lost Time ???
Hi Seek, I think the consensus is that the anagram was Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost). I think the other major easter eggs were:
* The name, Edmund Burke
*The Clockwork Orange references
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
more on this later
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:13 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
Apparently so, Zen. Like you, I've been collapsed on the floor. I'm just now rousing.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:16 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
Zen: You're right! I forgot about that!
So you loose your sense of independence, and join the Others where everything is done for the Greater Good. Juliette's comments on free will, and her book club choice become all that more poignant!
I forgot about it, too. Good memory, Captain.
Zen, good connection with Juliet's comments about free will and about the greater good.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:19 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Could this be 'the room' that bea threatened Walt with?
Ms Klugh: Walt! You want me to put you in the room again? if the others put walt in a room like that - what kind of monsters are they?
i thought sawyers jawdropped overwhelmed reaction was really interesting
juliet arrived on the island around september 11, 2001
desmond said he had been in the hatch for three years - this means they arrived at about the same time
could juliet's arrival have had something to do with desmond's ship wreck?
Hi Sweet, I think it's a good possibility that Walt was in or near the same or a similar facility. Which raises the question of how he communicated via computer with Michael. Maybe his mind was expressing itself via the computer without him actually touching the keys or something.
Good question about Juliet's arrival coinciding or having a causal effect on Desmond's shipwreck. I don't know! But it seems plausible.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:20 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Whew! I think I'm caught up.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:36 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:39 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
LOL, Captain, no, I didn't much care for the music. Maybe if I were in a club sipping a cold drink, but not then, not there.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 04:19 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
bg: Did you REALLY tell them you wanted to know about Brendan and what he did with the key?
You are priceless! (in the best possible way).
You really were upset about the buddhist images? Was it their cavalier usage or their juxtaposition against other images of questionable acceptability? I confess to an interpretation of their usage in the ACO scene as little more than inclusion in a series of icons intended to drive the messages into the mind by association with archetypes.
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
Parallels? Dom reminds me a bit of the Malcolm McDowell character Alex. And there is the obvious NAME association to Danielle's daughter.
Speaking of whom, what is the consensus about Alex's relationship to Ben? Adopted? Defacto father? Was Ben in Danielle's party, engaging in a little adulteration? But she said she was already pregnant during the expedition. Perhaps Ben was active before the group left?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Sneaker, LOL, Yes, I told Touchstone I wanted to know about Brennon and that damn pesky key. It's one of the main reasons I started posting on the general board in the first place and one of the main reaons I keep watching the show - that and wanting to see Danielle's flashback episode, of course.
On another note, yes, I was very upset with the use of Buddhist images in what can only be termed brainwashing. In addition to the reasons I stated in my earlier post, another reason I'm upset is that the use of Buddhist iconography in that scene violates one of the very foundations of Buddhist thinking: it is never to be imposed upon someone.
On still another note, I haven't seen ACO in a long time. I'll have to rewatch it before I can make much of a contribution to its discussion.
As for Alex's paternity, I don't think there's a consensus. Some think Ben is the biological father, which calls into question everything Danielle has told us. Some, including myself, think that Ben is the "adoptive" father - that is, perhaps he raised her after she was taken from Danielle.
Either way, I don't think Alex knows who her mother is nor that she's alive. IMHO, as rebellious as Alex is, if she had any inkling her mother was nearby she would likely try to find and contact her. Thus, Ben has probably lied to Alex and made up some story about her mother being dead.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:22 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
I actually really love it too. But having not seen it in over 25 years and watching the brainwashing scene out of context made for a disturbing pre-breakfast experience this morning.
Dom really does sound like Malcolm. Doubt Charlie could handle a bit of the ultraviolence though. Doesn't have the yarbles for it.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:43 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:54 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:01 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:17 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
Hi Captain, I agree we need a Ben flashback - we have so little to go on, pre-crash. We know Juliet wasn't happy, and we know they sometimes had plumbing problems, and we know Ben was miffed about being "out of the book club."
Actually, those are all pretty mild problems. Maybe it was sort of idyllic.
gotta get some sleep
g'night
bg
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 02:43 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers. TGIF.
Anyone having luck connecting the easter eggs to the Adam & Eve mystery and to the upcoming mythology?
I'm not getting very far.
I think the name, Edmund Burke, and the Clockwork Orange references can both be connected with freewill and choice, and the role of the state apparatus in creating a "good" society - something we've seen playing out in the Other's society. Burke seems to imply that "evil" is a necessary component of a civilized society, although I'm fuzzy on his exact logic, while the ACO references are as clear as day:
Before Alex goes for his two weeks of Ludovico's Technique, the chaplain takes him aside and muses on the moral questions raised by this method of conditioning by which Alex will be forced to be good: "What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses the bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"
More puzzling, perhaps, is the structured mirroring of ACO and how it might relate to LOST. Are we now in part II of LOST and part III will mirror (in an opposite kind of way) part I? Does this somehow get us back to Adam and Eve?
...Parts I and III imitate each other. Part III is truly a mirror image of Part I: both identical and reversed. In Part III, Alex encounters all the characters of Part I but finds himself in a position relative to each directly opposite than his position at the beginning of the novel. In Part I, Alex and his friends beat up the helpless old man who runs into them coming back from the public library; in Part III, Alex runs into this same old man and is, humiliatingly, beaten up by him and his old cronies...
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/clockworkorange/section22.rhtml
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:08 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
These two easter eggs:
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
are troubling to me in that I had hoped to avoid having to think about any sort of time loops or time distortions. But it's pretty well been shoved in my face, so here we go. Grab the tinfoil.
The hatch implosion created a tiny, mini-black hole through which Desmond traveled and emerged. The mini-black hole's creation was detected by the two watchdogs. Further, it created a small time distortion, a hiccup or wrinkle, if you will, on the island, and finally, it gave (or enhanced) Desmond's precog ability. The small wrinkle in time could be the "catastrophically screwed" part.
On July 18, 2004, Stephen Hawkings revised his thinking about Black Holes. Previously he thought that anything entering into the vicinity of a black hole would be sucked in and stay there forever, giving off no clue as to its existence, but in 2004 he revised his thinking that info could escape from black holes.
According to his new concept of black hole model these holes never completely destroy everything that falls in. Instead, they continue to emit radiation for extended periods, eventually open up to reveal the information within them. He explained ‘The black holes only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell in, so we can be sure of the past and we can predict the future.’
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/ajoy/hawking.htm
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:46 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Interesting result when I googled "3 years, 2 months, 28 days." Probably irrelevant, but you never know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_Of_Things_To_Come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Years_Two_Months_Eleven_Days
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 05:08 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good morning Joopers!
TGIF!
Backgammon--don't know if the TPTB read this thread about Punk Rockers a while back. Maybe it is a shout out! I'll see if I can find the link and add it.
Whiney Punk Rockers
Message was edited by: Zen to add link
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 07:41 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:51 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
Did the producers confirm that is correct anagram?
It could also read 'EM--Lost it.'
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:54 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
That would be cool.
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:08 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I keep forgetting to write how much I am enjoying Tom. He's fast becoming one of my favorite characters. I have a feeling he is going to turn out to have been an actor in another life.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:50 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:18 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Did anyone get a look at the Dharma logo sitting on Rachael's side table at the beginning of the last ep? There are no screen caps for that scene on LostMedia.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:32 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
LOL, that sounds like the geek boys.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 12:11 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
Zen sneaks into the thread and exclaims "Holy Time/Space Warp Batman!"
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:49 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Morning, Joopers,
Whew! Kate and Sawyer- successful escape!
And Jack was given something he always needs:
a Damsel in Distress.
Hi Island Lilly, excellent point about Jack now having something he always needs: a Damsel in Distress. Your idea goes a long way to explain her character's presence in the show. If Jack learns of her backstory and her desperation to leave the island, he'll have something to fix.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:52 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
Great connections you've made here, Captain. I wouldn't have connected the Jacob story to ACO in a million years. Nice!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:55 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
Seek: I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap
Good question, Captain. It did seem strange that he was in the building, didn't it? I'm guessing he was confirming the results of Juliet's work for Mittelwork, er, I mean Mittelos.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:10 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Bg : 1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
Could the anagram have been the Bioscience company, Mittelos ? Time Lost or Lost Time ? As for it providing a clue to Adam and Eve, maybe the drugs/vaccines increases or ages people and the skeletons in the cave are actually younger than what Jack had said they were ( like Juliet thought that the picture of the womb was of an older woman but it was not )? Maybe they were injected with the vaccines (produced by the company) to heal them from the damage that was happening inside their bodies but it rapidly aged them (from the outside) and they died ? Lost their lives = Lost Time ???
Hi Seek, I think the consensus is that the anagram was Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost). I think the other major easter eggs were:
* The name, Edmund Burke
*The Clockwork Orange references
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:13 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
Apparently so, Zen. Like you, I've been collapsed on the floor. I'm just now rousing.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:16 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Captain: Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
Zen: You're right! I forgot about that!
So you loose your sense of independence, and join the Others where everything is done for the Greater Good. Juliette's comments on free will, and her book club choice become all that more poignant!
I forgot about it, too. Good memory, Captain.
Zen, good connection with Juliet's comments about free will and about the greater good.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:19 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Could this be 'the room' that bea threatened Walt with?
Ms Klugh: Walt! You want me to put you in the room again? if the others put walt in a room like that - what kind of monsters are they?
i thought sawyers jawdropped overwhelmed reaction was really interesting
juliet arrived on the island around september 11, 2001
desmond said he had been in the hatch for three years - this means they arrived at about the same time
could juliet's arrival have had something to do with desmond's ship wreck?
Hi Sweet, I think it's a good possibility that Walt was in or near the same or a similar facility. Which raises the question of how he communicated via computer with Michael. Maybe his mind was expressing itself via the computer without him actually touching the keys or something.
Good question about Juliet's arrival coinciding or having a causal effect on Desmond's shipwreck. I don't know! But it seems plausible.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:20 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Whew! I think I'm caught up.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:36 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 03:39 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
Pretty sure it was an original piece by 'Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember' who does the music for the show. You didn't like it? I thought it was great!
LOL, Captain, no, I didn't much care for the music. Maybe if I were in a club sipping a cold drink, but not then, not there.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 04:19 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
bg: Did you REALLY tell them you wanted to know about Brendan and what he did with the key?
You are priceless! (in the best possible way).
You really were upset about the buddhist images? Was it their cavalier usage or their juxtaposition against other images of questionable acceptability? I confess to an interpretation of their usage in the ACO scene as little more than inclusion in a series of icons intended to drive the messages into the mind by association with archetypes.
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
Parallels? Dom reminds me a bit of the Malcolm McDowell character Alex. And there is the obvious NAME association to Danielle's daughter.
Speaking of whom, what is the consensus about Alex's relationship to Ben? Adopted? Defacto father? Was Ben in Danielle's party, engaging in a little adulteration? But she said she was already pregnant during the expedition. Perhaps Ben was active before the group left?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Sneaker, LOL, Yes, I told Touchstone I wanted to know about Brennon and that damn pesky key. It's one of the main reasons I started posting on the general board in the first place and one of the main reaons I keep watching the show - that and wanting to see Danielle's flashback episode, of course.
On another note, yes, I was very upset with the use of Buddhist images in what can only be termed brainwashing. In addition to the reasons I stated in my earlier post, another reason I'm upset is that the use of Buddhist iconography in that scene violates one of the very foundations of Buddhist thinking: it is never to be imposed upon someone.
On still another note, I haven't seen ACO in a long time. I'll have to rewatch it before I can make much of a contribution to its discussion.
As for Alex's paternity, I don't think there's a consensus. Some think Ben is the biological father, which calls into question everything Danielle has told us. Some, including myself, think that Ben is the "adoptive" father - that is, perhaps he raised her after she was taken from Danielle.
Either way, I don't think Alex knows who her mother is nor that she's alive. IMHO, as rebellious as Alex is, if she had any inkling her mother was nearby she would likely try to find and contact her. Thus, Ben has probably lied to Alex and made up some story about her mother being dead.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:22 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
ACO is one of my favorite movies. It IS "ultra-violent" and as long as you understand that it has to be that way since it is a study in the control of uncontrollable violence, it can be appreciated. I just LOVE the scenes at the end of the movie when Alex is being fed by the minister in the hospital.
I actually really love it too. But having not seen it in over 25 years and watching the brainwashing scene out of context made for a disturbing pre-breakfast experience this morning.
Dom really does sound like Malcolm. Doubt Charlie could handle a bit of the ultraviolence though. Doesn't have the yarbles for it.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:43 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, did you not watch LOST last night? I wondered where you were. I thought it was just the difference in time zones, but maybe the 10:00 timeslot is affecting folks.
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 05:54 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I watched it last night. I thought about logging on after the show, but figured everybody had already gone to bed.
Did you watch the pre-show? I thought it was going to be another cheesy clip show so I missed some of it. I was surprised to see Carlton admit that the island has the power to manifest people and animals.
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:01 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Captain, I watched it twice and I was impressed, too. In some ways I found it more interesting than 'Not in Portland.'
One tidbit I thought intriguing was the comment about "...one might assume the Others were living an idyllic life but then the plane crashed."
While we might assume it, do you think that's something we should assume? I'm on the fence on this.
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 06:17 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I would like to see that one again. Will have to see if they plan to replay it.
I have never assumed an idyllic life for the Others. Everything we've seen about them aside from their cute little bungalows is highly disturbing, possibly psychotic. Of course, we've only seen them after the crash...
I want a Ben Linus pre-crash flashback! And I want it NOW!!!
Hi Captain, I agree we need a Ben flashback - we have so little to go on, pre-crash. We know Juliet wasn't happy, and we know they sometimes had plumbing problems, and we know Ben was miffed about being "out of the book club."
Actually, those are all pretty mild problems. Maybe it was sort of idyllic.
gotta get some sleep
g'night
bg
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 02:43 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning, Joopers. TGIF.
Anyone having luck connecting the easter eggs to the Adam & Eve mystery and to the upcoming mythology?
I'm not getting very far.
I think the name, Edmund Burke, and the Clockwork Orange references can both be connected with freewill and choice, and the role of the state apparatus in creating a "good" society - something we've seen playing out in the Other's society. Burke seems to imply that "evil" is a necessary component of a civilized society, although I'm fuzzy on his exact logic, while the ACO references are as clear as day:
Before Alex goes for his two weeks of Ludovico's Technique, the chaplain takes him aside and muses on the moral questions raised by this method of conditioning by which Alex will be forced to be good: "What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses the bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"
More puzzling, perhaps, is the structured mirroring of ACO and how it might relate to LOST. Are we now in part II of LOST and part III will mirror (in an opposite kind of way) part I? Does this somehow get us back to Adam and Eve?
...Parts I and III imitate each other. Part III is truly a mirror image of Part I: both identical and reversed. In Part III, Alex encounters all the characters of Part I but finds himself in a position relative to each directly opposite than his position at the beginning of the novel. In Part I, Alex and his friends beat up the helpless old man who runs into them coming back from the public library; in Part III, Alex runs into this same old man and is, humiliatingly, beaten up by him and his old cronies...
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/clockworkorange/section22.rhtml
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:08 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
These two easter eggs:
*The Stephen Hawkings book Karl was reading, "A Brief History of Time."
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
are troubling to me in that I had hoped to avoid having to think about any sort of time loops or time distortions. But it's pretty well been shoved in my face, so here we go. Grab the tinfoil.
The hatch implosion created a tiny, mini-black hole through which Desmond traveled and emerged. The mini-black hole's creation was detected by the two watchdogs. Further, it created a small time distortion, a hiccup or wrinkle, if you will, on the island, and finally, it gave (or enhanced) Desmond's precog ability. The small wrinkle in time could be the "catastrophically screwed" part.
On July 18, 2004, Stephen Hawkings revised his thinking about Black Holes. Previously he thought that anything entering into the vicinity of a black hole would be sucked in and stay there forever, giving off no clue as to its existence, but in 2004 he revised his thinking that info could escape from black holes.
According to his new concept of black hole model these holes never completely destroy everything that falls in. Instead, they continue to emit radiation for extended periods, eventually open up to reveal the information within them. He explained ‘The black holes only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell in, so we can be sure of the past and we can predict the future.’
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/ajoy/hawking.htm
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 03:46 AM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Interesting result when I googled "3 years, 2 months, 28 days." Probably irrelevant, but you never know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_Of_Things_To_Come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Years_Two_Months_Eleven_Days
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 05:08 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good morning Joopers!
TGIF!
Backgammon--don't know if the TPTB read this thread about Punk Rockers a while back. Maybe it is a shout out! I'll see if I can find the link and add it.
Whiney Punk Rockers
Message was edited by: Zen to add link
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 07:41 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:51 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
*The anagram for Mittelos (Lost Time or Time Lost)
Did the producers confirm that is correct anagram?
It could also read 'EM--Lost it.'
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 09:54 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Morning, Joopers.
Do you think 'Aldo' was a shout out to Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World?
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html
That would be cool.
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:08 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I keep forgetting to write how much I am enjoying Tom. He's fast becoming one of my favorite characters. I have a feeling he is going to turn out to have been an actor in another life.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 10:50 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:18 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Did anyone get a look at the Dharma logo sitting on Rachael's side table at the beginning of the last ep? There are no screen caps for that scene on LostMedia.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 11:32 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
I read elsewhere that Aldo was an ape from 'The Planet of the Apes' series. He was the first ape to kill one of his own. (There was a rule 'Ape does not kill ape'.) I figure his name was foreshadowing Juliet killing Danny.
LOL, that sounds like the geek boys.
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Posted: Feb 09 @ 12:11 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Only fools are enslaved by time and space
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1521051&forumStart=0
Zen sneaks into the thread and exclaims "Holy Time/Space Warp Batman!"
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20 Watchmen Discussion from Joop pt 13 Feb 2007
Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:00 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Dark UFO has the screencaps up from the Clockwork Orange scene.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/brainwashing-scene-text.html
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:06 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Dark UFO has the screencaps up from the Clockwork Orange scene.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/brainwashing-scene-text.html
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
Hi Zen, I picked up on the Buddhist concepts, too, and I found them very troubling in that context, partly because I had to struggle against being personally offended.
On a more objective note, I wonder if we can infer from this that the Others distort and abuse other philosophies and precepts to their own ends, and not just Buddhist concepts?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:30 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
Hi Zen, I picked up on the Buddhist concepts, too, and I found them very troubling in that context, partly because I had to struggle against being personally offended.
On a more objective note, I wonder if we can infer from this that the Others distort and abuse other philosophies and precepts to their own ends, and not just Buddhist concepts?
I would say that Lost in general has distorted several religious concepts throughout the show, and I don't think they're out to offend anybody. Just like with the whole baptism thing and all the fights that started. To me, they were just using what seem like general statements that took on cultish meaning only because of the circumstances. I wouldn't get too worried about it. Most non-buddists wouldn't have made any connection, it seems.
Message was edited by: Little_Rosie7
just to say goodnight.
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:31 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
It really was quite disturbing. I'm not certain as to why the Others would disrespectfully use these concepts--other than the writers wanting to portray the juxtaposition. Again, it was very offensive.
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
taken from the website: http://www.xenos.org/teachings/ot/genesis/gary/gen25-2.htm
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:36 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Tinfoil hat time: 2nd thought about the Buddhist concepts being used to torture Karl: What if the Others had a rift with the original Dharma Initative people?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I would say that Lost in general has distorted several religious concepts throughout the show, and I don't think they're out to offend anybody. Just like with the whole baptism thing and all the fights that started. To me, they were just using what seem like general statements that took on cultish meaning only because of the circumstances. I wouldn't get too worried about it. Most non-buddists wouldn't have made any connection, it seems.
Hi Lil' Rosie, I agree that LOST doesn't pick sides - they seem to be pretty fair about offending folks of all faiths and philosophies.
Speaking of being offended, in this preview clip for next week's episode, does someone blow up the cow barn? What in the world is going on?!! Why does someone want to kill the poor cows?!
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/02/flashes-before-your-eyes-us-trailer.html
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:43 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
It really was quite disturbing. I'm not certain as to why the Others would disrespectfully use these concepts--other than the writers wanting to portray the juxtaposition. Again, it was very offensive.
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
taken from the website: http://www.xenos.org/teachings/ot/genesis/gary/gen25-2.htm
Hi Zen, I agree it was offensive. I'm hoping the writers did it deliberately as you stated for a juxtaposition effect, and not just because they're dolts.
That's a fascinating quote about Jacob. In view of what little we know or have hypothesized about Jacob, I'm wondering if Ben thinks he's God and his followers are Jacobs? Dr. Manhattan again?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:48 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Tinfoil hat time: 2nd thought about the Buddhist concepts being used to torture Karl: What if the Others had a rift with the original Dharma Initative people?
Hi Zen, if my memory is correct, I think TPTB have stated that the Others and the Nother Others are not composed of any of the original Dharmas, rift or no rift. But it's very late and I may be remembering wrong.
Regardless of whether they are true Dharmas or not, I think it's fair that they may have borrowed heavily from Dharma's "stuff." They occupy Dharma buildings, they use Dharma ketchup, etc, so it wouldn't be surprising to me that they grabbed onto some of the original Dharma philosophy and then twisted it to their own purposes.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:50 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
It's late. My tinfoil is burnt and crispy.
g'night
bg
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:53 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good night BG!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 10:50 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Drat, I missed the rest of the discussion. One thing I wanted to add: wasn't that a great scene when Kate weas telling Jack the story and Jack was finishing the surgery as fear subsided for both of them? Evie is really getting to be a good actress. Even Sawyer looked moved listening to her.
And I just rewatched the brainwashing video - Holy Wires and headgear, can someone please come out and say, "Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy going on and on about the goggles and scuba gear"? Please? I've worked so hard to try and show people this, even though no one could ever see it and everyone thought I was nuts (well, not you guys). It is very, very creepy.
Now just wait 'til you see all the kids in the jungle, not to mention the wires.
"Night, all.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 07:06 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Goggles?? Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy, dear.
Have to agree about the pregnant sister. It will be interesting to see how they will justify that, if indeed she is also being treated for cancer. Also if the only way Juliet could get home was with Ben's help, why would she want him dead?
More questions, but a few answers. Good show.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 08:08 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
Good morning Joopers ! Just wanted to add a couple things here to the discussion of lastnights episode.
5. " Think about your Life " was also a message in the film. In the imagery there was a flash of Gerald DeGroot. Iam guessing that this video was from Dharma since he appeared in it. Also when Kate, Sawyer and Alex first came into the building, you could see a glimpse of a small satellite dish . This must be how they are getting their outside feeds.
Also I noticed when Kate and Sawyer were running thru the woods, several tree's had red paint marks on them. * Lucky, did you see them too ? ( It went very fast, but I slowed down the shots and you can see them ). Marked tree's like Eko did. Are they marked for a special reason ??
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 09:31 AM
by: IslandLilly (10 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 11, 2005
Morning, Joopers,
Whew! Kate and Sawyer- successful escape!
And Jack was given something he always needs:
a Damsel in Distress.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:18 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:23 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:38 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap).
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:51 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap).
You're right. Probably just testing.
I was going to post the brainwashing scene from ACO, but it is VERY VIOLENT. I had forgotten just how disturbing it is. The movie was rated X when it was released in the 60s. Keep that in mind if you go looking for the movie.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:58 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Bg : 1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
Could the anagram have been the Bioscience company, Mittelos ? Time Lost or Lost Time ? As for it providing a clue to Adam and Eve, maybe the drugs/vaccines increases or ages people and the skeletons in the cave are actually younger than what Jack had said they were ( like Juliet thought that the picture of the womb was of an older woman but it was not )? Maybe they were injected with the vaccines (produced by the company) to heal them from the damage that was happening inside their bodies but it rapidly aged them (from the outside) and they died ? Lost their lives = Lost Time ???
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:09 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:23 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:31 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
You're right! I forgot about that!
So you loose your sense of independence, and join the Others where everything is done for the Greater Good. Juliette's comments on free will, and her book club choice become all that more poignant!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:04 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
hey
hey
hey joopers!
i don't know about you - but my skin CRAWLED when Ben said 'hey'
MAN can that guy do creepy!
Karl's clockwork orange room was jawdropping
all the benign images and the philosophical statements (didn't know til now they were buddhist) with the loud music was SO sinister
Could this be 'the room' that bea threatened Walt with?
Ms Klugh: Walt! You want me to put you in the room again? if the others put walt in a room like that - what kind of monsters are they?
i thought sawyers jawdropped overwhelmed reaction was really interesting
overall really liked the epi
can't tell if it was deprivation or that I LOVE THIS SHOW!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:17 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
juliet arrived on the island around september 11, 2001
desmond said he had been in the hatch for three years - this means they arrived at about the same time
could juliet's arrival have had something to do with desmond's ship wreck?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:27 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Afternoon, Joopers. Being that I am on the Touchstone Advisory Board, I was contacted and asked to answer a few questions about last night's episode. A live Q & A session is coming up in about 30 minutes, and I intend to participate in that, as well. Zen, since you're also on the Board, did you respond?
Here's my response to their questions.
1. How would you rate last night's all new episode compared to other episodes this season?
Compared to the first 6 epis, 'Not in Portland' was terrible. In fact, it was one of the worst LOST episodes ever.
First, I was deeply offended by the use of Buddhist imagery in Karl's brainwashing scene. While the iconography and practice of other faiths such as Christianity and Islam have been depicted in a somewhat negative light in past seasons, in no instance were those faiths associated with brainwashing and forced consumption as was Buddhism in last night's episode. I am appalled and disgusted.
Second, I was mystified by Juliet's character in the flashback. She is in an abusive and exploitive relationship with her ex-husband, Edmund Burke, so why on earth would she be so eager to tell him of her success with Rachel's impregnation? This defied logic. As for the logic of impregnating a sister who is apparently very sick, this defies logic as well, but I can somewhat accept that Juliet may have thought it was a good idea, as weird as it may seem. But is this supposed to make me like her? I don’t understand.
Third, I don't understand why the creative team thinks that infertility is an interesting storyline. While it may be somewhat interesting as it relates to the island, who cares about Rachel's infertility? Or rather, who cares about Rachel? For that matter, why should I care about Juliet? Nothing I saw last night endeared her to me. She was a victimized mess with some questionable ethics and logic. Yawn. Was her hiding under a lab table and getting caught by her ex-husband supposed to make me laugh or feel sympathy for her? I don’t get it.
cont....
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:28 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
cont...
2. Which characters do you find most compelling?Why?
I find Benry's character the most compelling because he's so full of surprises Also Danielle and Sayid are compelling - Danielle because she's such a mystery and Sayid because he's the most self-reflexive and honest.
3. Which characters would you like to see more of? Why?
I would like to see more of Benry, Danielle, Sayid, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Locke, and Desmond.
4. There are many questions that have not been answered. Of all these mysteries, which would you like answered the most?
• Who are The Others?
• What is the meaning of the numbers?
• What is the monster?
• What are the whispering sounds?
• What is the four-toed statue?
• What happened when the hatch imploded (sky lit up, sound, etc.)?
• What is the Dharma Initiative?
The mystery I would like answered the most is the smoke monster. Where did it come from? What is it? Why did it kill one of my favorites, Mr. Eko?
5. Are there any other mysteries that you MUST know the answer to?
Yes, I MUST know Danielle's backstory. I'm MUST see a flashback that depicts events 16 years ago when she crashed on the island. Further, I MUST know who Brennon is and why he took the key.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Lucky: Holy Wires and headgear, can someone please come out and say, "Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy going on and on about the goggles and scuba gear"? Please? I've worked so hard to try and show people this, even though no one could ever see it and everyone thought I was nuts
Lucky, I'd like to believe these things you see are there, if for no other reason than it's so desperately important to you and because I care about you so much. But like Sayid, I can only believe what I can see. And all I see are the usual perception tricks the eye and brain play when one stares at something for a long time.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Goggles?? Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy, dear.
Have to agree about the pregnant sister. It will be interesting to see how they will justify that, if indeed she is also being treated for cancer. Also if the only way Juliet could get home was with Ben's help, why would she want him dead?
More questions, but a few answers. Good show.
Hi LLassin, good question about why Juliet would want Ben dead if he were the only way she could get off the island. Also, what are your thoughts on her comment that "Jack would never just kill someone deliberately." Did she believe that when she was asking him to kill Ben? If so, why would she ask him?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:45 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning Joopers ! Just wanted to add a couple things here to the discussion of lastnights episode.
5. " Think about your Life " was also a message in the film. In the imagery there was a flash of Gerald DeGroot. Iam guessing that this video was from Dharma since he appeared in it. Also when Kate, Sawyer and Alex first came into the building, you could see a glimpse of a small satellite dish . This must be how they are getting their outside feeds.
Also I noticed when Kate and Sawyer were running thru the woods, several tree's had red paint marks on them. * Lucky, did you see them too ? ( It went very fast, but I slowed down the shots and you can see them ). Marked tree's like Eko did. Are they marked for a special reason ??
Hi Seek, good catch about the small satellite dish outside and the Gerald DeGroot image in the video. I saw some screencaps today that show the infamous Hanso standing in the window image, as well. Both images are from the Orientation video indicating that perhaps someone did some cut and splice to make this one.
I wonder if there's any connection with the film splice that was found inside the Bible in the Arrow station.
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:00 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Dark UFO has the screencaps up from the Clockwork Orange scene.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/brainwashing-scene-text.html
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:06 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Dark UFO has the screencaps up from the Clockwork Orange scene.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/brainwashing-scene-text.html
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:18 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
Hi Zen, I picked up on the Buddhist concepts, too, and I found them very troubling in that context, partly because I had to struggle against being personally offended.
On a more objective note, I wonder if we can infer from this that the Others distort and abuse other philosophies and precepts to their own ends, and not just Buddhist concepts?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:30 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
Hi Zen, I picked up on the Buddhist concepts, too, and I found them very troubling in that context, partly because I had to struggle against being personally offended.
On a more objective note, I wonder if we can infer from this that the Others distort and abuse other philosophies and precepts to their own ends, and not just Buddhist concepts?
I would say that Lost in general has distorted several religious concepts throughout the show, and I don't think they're out to offend anybody. Just like with the whole baptism thing and all the fights that started. To me, they were just using what seem like general statements that took on cultish meaning only because of the circumstances. I wouldn't get too worried about it. Most non-buddists wouldn't have made any connection, it seems.
Message was edited by: Little_Rosie7
just to say goodnight.
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:31 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
It really was quite disturbing. I'm not certain as to why the Others would disrespectfully use these concepts--other than the writers wanting to portray the juxtaposition. Again, it was very offensive.
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
taken from the website: http://www.xenos.org/teachings/ot/genesis/gary/gen25-2.htm
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:36 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Tinfoil hat time: 2nd thought about the Buddhist concepts being used to torture Karl: What if the Others had a rift with the original Dharma Initative people?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
I would say that Lost in general has distorted several religious concepts throughout the show, and I don't think they're out to offend anybody. Just like with the whole baptism thing and all the fights that started. To me, they were just using what seem like general statements that took on cultish meaning only because of the circumstances. I wouldn't get too worried about it. Most non-buddists wouldn't have made any connection, it seems.
Hi Lil' Rosie, I agree that LOST doesn't pick sides - they seem to be pretty fair about offending folks of all faiths and philosophies.
Speaking of being offended, in this preview clip for next week's episode, does someone blow up the cow barn? What in the world is going on?!! Why does someone want to kill the poor cows?!
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/02/flashes-before-your-eyes-us-trailer.html
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:43 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
It really was quite disturbing. I'm not certain as to why the Others would disrespectfully use these concepts--other than the writers wanting to portray the juxtaposition. Again, it was very offensive.
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
taken from the website: http://www.xenos.org/teachings/ot/genesis/gary/gen25-2.htm
Hi Zen, I agree it was offensive. I'm hoping the writers did it deliberately as you stated for a juxtaposition effect, and not just because they're dolts.
That's a fascinating quote about Jacob. In view of what little we know or have hypothesized about Jacob, I'm wondering if Ben thinks he's God and his followers are Jacobs? Dr. Manhattan again?
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:48 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Tinfoil hat time: 2nd thought about the Buddhist concepts being used to torture Karl: What if the Others had a rift with the original Dharma Initative people?
Hi Zen, if my memory is correct, I think TPTB have stated that the Others and the Nother Others are not composed of any of the original Dharmas, rift or no rift. But it's very late and I may be remembering wrong.
Regardless of whether they are true Dharmas or not, I think it's fair that they may have borrowed heavily from Dharma's "stuff." They occupy Dharma buildings, they use Dharma ketchup, etc, so it wouldn't be surprising to me that they grabbed onto some of the original Dharma philosophy and then twisted it to their own purposes.
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:50 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
It's late. My tinfoil is burnt and crispy.
g'night
bg
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 09:53 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Good night BG!
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 10:50 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Drat, I missed the rest of the discussion. One thing I wanted to add: wasn't that a great scene when Kate weas telling Jack the story and Jack was finishing the surgery as fear subsided for both of them? Evie is really getting to be a good actress. Even Sawyer looked moved listening to her.
And I just rewatched the brainwashing video - Holy Wires and headgear, can someone please come out and say, "Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy going on and on about the goggles and scuba gear"? Please? I've worked so hard to try and show people this, even though no one could ever see it and everyone thought I was nuts (well, not you guys). It is very, very creepy.
Now just wait 'til you see all the kids in the jungle, not to mention the wires.
"Night, all.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 07:06 AM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Goggles?? Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy, dear.
Have to agree about the pregnant sister. It will be interesting to see how they will justify that, if indeed she is also being treated for cancer. Also if the only way Juliet could get home was with Ben's help, why would she want him dead?
More questions, but a few answers. Good show.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 08:08 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
From wakingsleep's thread:
Here are all the messages:
1. Plant a good seed and joyfully gather fruit
2. Everything changes
3. God loves you as he loved Jacob.
4. We are the causes of our own suffering
All very Buddhist, except for the Jacob statement. Very scary way to have someone follow the path, not at all a reflective way to understanding. And that music....poor Karl.
Good morning Joopers ! Just wanted to add a couple things here to the discussion of lastnights episode.
5. " Think about your Life " was also a message in the film. In the imagery there was a flash of Gerald DeGroot. Iam guessing that this video was from Dharma since he appeared in it. Also when Kate, Sawyer and Alex first came into the building, you could see a glimpse of a small satellite dish . This must be how they are getting their outside feeds.
Also I noticed when Kate and Sawyer were running thru the woods, several tree's had red paint marks on them. * Lucky, did you see them too ? ( It went very fast, but I slowed down the shots and you can see them ). Marked tree's like Eko did. Are they marked for a special reason ??
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 09:31 AM
by: IslandLilly (10 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 11, 2005
Morning, Joopers,
Whew! Kate and Sawyer- successful escape!
And Jack was given something he always needs:
a Damsel in Distress.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:18 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
On another note, I found this bit of info on Jacob's story:
After wrestling all night, God dislocated Jacob's thigh with a touch (32:25). This showed Jacob who he was fighting with (someone with immense power who could easily beat him), and that this was a picture. God had been taking progressively more drastic steps (Esau; Laban; Esau) to teach Jacob to abandon his self-sufficiency and trust him.
Now crippled, Jacob can only hang on to God--a picture of his proper relationship with God. Now that Jacob's tenacity is expressed in a dependent posture, God blesses him (probably reiterates the Promise) and renames him to cleanse him from his old ways ("supplanter;" "deceiver") and give him a new identity to live up to ("one who strives effectively with God"). God has always been willing to bless Jacob. He has only been waiting for Jacob to ask with a trusting, dependent heart.
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:23 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:38 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Anyone else wonder if Ethan had anything to do with Rachael's miraculous pregnancy?
I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap).
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:51 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I don't know captain ? I was thinking that maybe he had snucked into Rachel's apartment, drugged her and then took a blood sample to see if she was pregnant or not. The reason I think that he did this, is because Juliet mentions to her about falling asleep with candles burning and she had some kind of oxygen tank beside her (not a good idea to take a nap).
You're right. Probably just testing.
I was going to post the brainwashing scene from ACO, but it is VERY VIOLENT. I had forgotten just how disturbing it is. The movie was rated X when it was released in the 60s. Keep that in mind if you go looking for the movie.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 10:58 AM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Bg : 1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
Could the anagram have been the Bioscience company, Mittelos ? Time Lost or Lost Time ? As for it providing a clue to Adam and Eve, maybe the drugs/vaccines increases or ages people and the skeletons in the cave are actually younger than what Jack had said they were ( like Juliet thought that the picture of the womb was of an older woman but it was not )? Maybe they were injected with the vaccines (produced by the company) to heal them from the damage that was happening inside their bodies but it rapidly aged them (from the outside) and they died ? Lost their lives = Lost Time ???
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:09 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Not trying to be offensive, but that's basically what happens to the character Alex in A Clockwork Orange. Judged by society to be too violent and independant, he is brainwashed and his violent tendancies removed. This also removes his independance and he has to rely on society to tell him what to do. The difference in the stories is Jacob had a revelation, while Alex was forced to submit.
Rossini's The Theiving Magpie is playing on the radio. This song is used in ACO. How cool is that?
Message was edited by: captainsynchronisity
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:23 AM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
So in Otherville, you must adhere to their Utopian society (as in Clockwork Orange). What do they want to accomplish? Cutting edge science that is unethical--as Edmond suggested? I am still appalled at the indoctrination process.
Zen collaspes on the floor
Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 11:31 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Not 'indoctrination', rehabilitation. Remember when Ben told AL that Goodwin thought she could be rehabilitated? I bet this is what he was talking about.
You're right! I forgot about that!
So you loose your sense of independence, and join the Others where everything is done for the Greater Good. Juliette's comments on free will, and her book club choice become all that more poignant!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:04 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
hey
hey
hey joopers!
i don't know about you - but my skin CRAWLED when Ben said 'hey'
MAN can that guy do creepy!
Karl's clockwork orange room was jawdropping
all the benign images and the philosophical statements (didn't know til now they were buddhist) with the loud music was SO sinister
Could this be 'the room' that bea threatened Walt with?
Ms Klugh: Walt! You want me to put you in the room again? if the others put walt in a room like that - what kind of monsters are they?
i thought sawyers jawdropped overwhelmed reaction was really interesting
overall really liked the epi
can't tell if it was deprivation or that I LOVE THIS SHOW!
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:17 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
juliet arrived on the island around september 11, 2001
desmond said he had been in the hatch for three years - this means they arrived at about the same time
could juliet's arrival have had something to do with desmond's ship wreck?
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:27 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Afternoon, Joopers. Being that I am on the Touchstone Advisory Board, I was contacted and asked to answer a few questions about last night's episode. A live Q & A session is coming up in about 30 minutes, and I intend to participate in that, as well. Zen, since you're also on the Board, did you respond?
Here's my response to their questions.
1. How would you rate last night's all new episode compared to other episodes this season?
Compared to the first 6 epis, 'Not in Portland' was terrible. In fact, it was one of the worst LOST episodes ever.
First, I was deeply offended by the use of Buddhist imagery in Karl's brainwashing scene. While the iconography and practice of other faiths such as Christianity and Islam have been depicted in a somewhat negative light in past seasons, in no instance were those faiths associated with brainwashing and forced consumption as was Buddhism in last night's episode. I am appalled and disgusted.
Second, I was mystified by Juliet's character in the flashback. She is in an abusive and exploitive relationship with her ex-husband, Edmund Burke, so why on earth would she be so eager to tell him of her success with Rachel's impregnation? This defied logic. As for the logic of impregnating a sister who is apparently very sick, this defies logic as well, but I can somewhat accept that Juliet may have thought it was a good idea, as weird as it may seem. But is this supposed to make me like her? I don’t understand.
Third, I don't understand why the creative team thinks that infertility is an interesting storyline. While it may be somewhat interesting as it relates to the island, who cares about Rachel's infertility? Or rather, who cares about Rachel? For that matter, why should I care about Juliet? Nothing I saw last night endeared her to me. She was a victimized mess with some questionable ethics and logic. Yawn. Was her hiding under a lab table and getting caught by her ex-husband supposed to make me laugh or feel sympathy for her? I don’t get it.
cont....
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 01:28 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
cont...
2. Which characters do you find most compelling?Why?
I find Benry's character the most compelling because he's so full of surprises Also Danielle and Sayid are compelling - Danielle because she's such a mystery and Sayid because he's the most self-reflexive and honest.
3. Which characters would you like to see more of? Why?
I would like to see more of Benry, Danielle, Sayid, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Locke, and Desmond.
4. There are many questions that have not been answered. Of all these mysteries, which would you like answered the most?
• Who are The Others?
• What is the meaning of the numbers?
• What is the monster?
• What are the whispering sounds?
• What is the four-toed statue?
• What happened when the hatch imploded (sky lit up, sound, etc.)?
• What is the Dharma Initiative?
The mystery I would like answered the most is the smoke monster. Where did it come from? What is it? Why did it kill one of my favorites, Mr. Eko?
5. Are there any other mysteries that you MUST know the answer to?
Yes, I MUST know Danielle's backstory. I'm MUST see a flashback that depicts events 16 years ago when she crashed on the island. Further, I MUST know who Brennon is and why he took the key.
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Lucky: Holy Wires and headgear, can someone please come out and say, "Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy going on and on about the goggles and scuba gear"? Please? I've worked so hard to try and show people this, even though no one could ever see it and everyone thought I was nuts
Lucky, I'd like to believe these things you see are there, if for no other reason than it's so desperately important to you and because I care about you so much. But like Sayid, I can only believe what I can see. And all I see are the usual perception tricks the eye and brain play when one stares at something for a long time.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:40 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Goggles?? Lucky, we knew you weren't crazy, dear.
Have to agree about the pregnant sister. It will be interesting to see how they will justify that, if indeed she is also being treated for cancer. Also if the only way Juliet could get home was with Ben's help, why would she want him dead?
More questions, but a few answers. Good show.
Hi LLassin, good question about why Juliet would want Ben dead if he were the only way she could get off the island. Also, what are your thoughts on her comment that "Jack would never just kill someone deliberately." Did she believe that when she was asking him to kill Ben? If so, why would she ask him?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 08 @ 02:45 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good morning Joopers ! Just wanted to add a couple things here to the discussion of lastnights episode.
5. " Think about your Life " was also a message in the film. In the imagery there was a flash of Gerald DeGroot. Iam guessing that this video was from Dharma since he appeared in it. Also when Kate, Sawyer and Alex first came into the building, you could see a glimpse of a small satellite dish . This must be how they are getting their outside feeds.
Also I noticed when Kate and Sawyer were running thru the woods, several tree's had red paint marks on them. * Lucky, did you see them too ? ( It went very fast, but I slowed down the shots and you can see them ). Marked tree's like Eko did. Are they marked for a special reason ??
Hi Seek, good catch about the small satellite dish outside and the Gerald DeGroot image in the video. I saw some screencaps today that show the infamous Hanso standing in the window image, as well. Both images are from the Orientation video indicating that perhaps someone did some cut and splice to make this one.
I wonder if there's any connection with the film splice that was found inside the Bible in the Arrow station.
Also, has anyone ID'd the music that was blaring in the Karl scene?
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19 Watchmen Discussion from Joop pt 13 Feb 2007
Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 12:31 PM
by: sheetler (1 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 30, 2006
Happy LOST watching day Joopers!
Sorry the real world has swallowed me whole, and the computer is dead, so I can't come play hardly ever any more
I look forward to reading through the greatness that is the Joop thread whenever I get the chance from now on.
Have a wonderful Wednesday, LOST is almost on!!!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 01:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good afternoon, Joopers! Zen, Captain, Sheetler, Sweet, LLassin, Lucky - it's great to see everybody checking in today!
If you're looking for great general-type spoilers about the rest of the season, check out this interview with Damon & Carlton from EW. Good stuff!
Link to Fed's thread:
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1516783&forumStart=0
Also, in case you missed it, here's a great little Michael Emerson thing. Love this guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTCfFy0NCNM
I'm off to get a little nap. I'll see everyone back here in a few!
4.5 hours to go! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 02:25 PM
by: other_voodoo (1 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 21, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 03:27 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
great joopalation
there's some celebration beginnin'!
spoiler free - the way i wanna beeeeeee!
lookin' forward to talkin' to you'all about the epi
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 03:42 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
How about some music? One of my favorite songs by the Dire Straits. Dedicated to Juliet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RdH-F_4nPI
Romeo and Juliet
A lovestruck Romeo sings a streetsus serenade
Laying everybody low with a lovesong that he made
Finds a convenient streetlight, steps out of the shade
Says something like 'You and me, babe, how about it?'
Juliet says 'Hey its Romeo! You nearly gimme a heart attack!'
He's underneath the window, she's singing 'hey la my boyfriend's back'
'You shouldn't come around here singing up at people like that.
Anyway, what you gonna do about it?'
Juliet, the dice were loaded from the start
And I bet, and you exploded in my heart
And I forget the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet?
Come up on differents streets, they both walked streets of shame
Both dirty both mean, yes and the dream was just the same
And I dreamed your dream for you and now your dream is real
How can you look at me as if I was just another one of your deals?
Where you can fall for chains of silver, you can fall for chains of gold
You can fall for pretty strangers and the promises they hold
You promised me everything, you promised me thick and thin
Now you just say 'Oh Romeo, yeah you know I used to have a scene with him...'
Juliet, when we made love you used to cry
You said I love you like the stars above Ill love you till I die
There's a place for us--you know the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet?
I can't do the talk like they talk on tv
And I can't do a love song like the way its meant to be
I can't do everything but Id do anything for you
I can't do anything except be in love with you
And all I do is miss you and the way we used to be
All do is keep the beat and bad company
All I do is kiss you through the bars of a rhyme
Julie, I'd do the stars with you any time
Juliet, when we made love you used to cry
You said I love you like the stars above I'll love you till I die
There's a place for us--you know the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet ?
A lovestruck Romeo sings a streetsus serenade
Laying everybody low with a lovesong that he made
Finds a convenient streetlight, steps out of the shade
Says something like, 'You and me, babe, how about it?'
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:55 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Voodoo! Grab the tinfoil!
Viva la Joopilation!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:57 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Sweet!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
How about some music? One of my favorite songs by the Dire Straits. Dedicated to Juliet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RdH-F_4nPI
Captain! Great song!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Arrrgghhhh! I'm too excited to nap! I'm delirious!
ONE HOUR! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:08 PM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Took a look at the Mittelos web site.
http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/
Nothing much there yet. You need a password to progress further.
Not long now...........hang on to your tinfoils.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:12 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Took a look at the Mittelos web site.
http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/
Nothing much there yet. You need a password to progress further.
Not long now...........hang on to your tinfoils.
Woah! My tinfoil is already heating and getting puffy at the edges!
Pop...pop...
Pop...pop...pop...
Pop...
Pop...pop...pop...pop....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:13 PM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:24 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Woah! My tinfoil is already heating and getting puffy at the edges!
Pop...pop...
Pop...pop...pop...
Pop...
Pop...pop...pop...pop....
Mittleos bioscience
Anagram = Lost time bioscience
Album for Season 3 = Vega 4's You And Others
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:37 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Feels strange: waking up from Lost hibernation. Hope they got the forum oiled up tonight!
I was a little worried watching Boston Legal last night when the first Lost promo hit, and it was a mere 15 sec. burp. I was concerned that the network may be getting ready to wind down, but they had a couple more full minute spots before the show was through.
getting the snacks ready, Joop better open a few more corks!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:43 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Viva la Joopilation!
@
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@
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXXX
XXXX
XXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
X X
X Brut d'Blanc X
X X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:43 PM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Have fun Joopers watching the show tonight !!! No more hiatus, no more repeats and no more longing for the show We Love ! WooH HooH ! ~ seek
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:45 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
May I just say how nice it is to hit refresh and see new posts again?
As a west side poster, I'll see you all in a couple of hours. Enjoy!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Sneaker! Seek! Little Rosie!
The champagne corks are flying!
Zen, that's great stuff!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:17 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
nearly 4 more hours to wait
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:44 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Little or no direct reference to Michael or Walt on the clip show..... Names mentioned but no images. And Boone/Shannon, A/L & Libby?
I guess it's time to only look forward.....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:49 PM
by: filbertsnout (12 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 30, 2006
Hi All,
I am at Lucky's house waiting for the BIG SHOW! I have been studying her evidence of the hidden faces and/or children in head contraptions....
And....
I see them too! ! They are there and they are scary, creepy,and downright icky! I am shocked that the writers/producers etc. have made the effort to insert these images, but they have... and I can't wait for the big reveal so that everyone can share in Lucky's brilliant detective work.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 07:08 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
((((voodoo))))))
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:16 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
2. Most bizarre scene ever: Ben conscious and talking face down on the OR table. Wild!
3. Tom says Juliet and Ben have a history. I wonder if it's the relationship we speculated about last fall? Lovers?
4. Juliet in the FB: "I'm not a leader. I'm a mess." What the heck happened to her to change her?
5. The big questions: Why would Julie get her sick sister pregnant? Did the sister have cancer? Was the sister sick as a result of the injections to get pregnant? Was she sick prior? Did the ultrasound images of the 26 year old woman with the 70 year old womb come from the island?
6. Edmund Burke is another philosopher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
7. Ben is Alex's father. Adopted, I presume.
8. I'm falling in love with Tom aka Zeke. He's turning out to be the Other's version of Hurley.
9. Karl. Room 23. Drugs. Music. Goggles. Psychedelic images. Yep. We're ready for the Magic Bus episode.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:17 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Thoughts on the new episode:
1. How Clockwork Orange.... What was THAT all about? Brain washing? And just what little devices have they inserted into Karl's head that will make Lostie beach life tougher? "So Karl! How about a nice game of solitaire?"
2. Parallels between Desmond's precognition and Juliet's "hit by a bus" reference?
3. Were the pregnancy tests Widmore too?
4. Impregnating a woman undergoing Cancer treatments? Is that even remotely safe?
5. I was waiting for this episode to either make me love or hate Juliet, and it left me ambiguous. We've seen her story, but I still wonder: What's her story?
6. Does Rodrigo get paid even though he did not appear in the episode, yet his name was on the "Starring" list?
7. Yeah! They kilt the right person, very annoying and absolutely 2-D. Glad that one was chosen.
8. So Danielle is pregnant BY BEN, WITH Alex before the scientific expedition hits the island? Was Ben part of the group she was with? Is there another child? Could KARL be Danielle's kid? I know scripts point to the child being a boy, but could there be a switcheroo? Would Ben have changed his name? Is it possible to have a Danielle flashback with out Ben showing up? Inquiring minds want to know!
9. So Eko will be back a few times, in dreams/visions/flashbacks? But forget about A/L or even Libby? And Michael/Walt are WAY out of the story line. WHere are those kids from the tail section?
Not bad episode, but they spent so much time trying to convince NEW fans that there was enough story & drama for them, I wonder if they haven't fallen over themselves trying to please everyone.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:20 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
10. Speaking of the Magic Bus, how did Edmund Burke get in the path of that oncoming bus? It appeared he was stepping backwards, but still, that didn't seem physically possible. Mittelos did it, but how?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:26 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi all! How weird was that brainwashing scene? Did anyone catch the part about God and Jacob? I need to watch that again.
I wonder if someone else will go through it, and the new recruits will "watch."
Maybe the history Juliet and Ben have together is related to her impregnating him?
Not in Portland...that's for sure.
I agree, Bg - I'm starting to love Tom.
I'm still partial to the idea that Danielle was originally one of Them, helped children escape, and had part of her memory replaced with the story we know. It would explain so many of the inconsistencies, particulary the "What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen...I wont!" line. Maybe she and Ben used to be together. That's why she somehow knew he was one of Them, even though she didn't really remember him.
Wouldn't it be cool if Danielle was born on the island too?
Episode didn't really blow me away, but it was a nice solid start to the season.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:35 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
<<>>
While I agree, a good start on the season, and not a spectACular epsode, it was neat getting that feeling at the end: I WANT MORE!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:38 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Thoughts on the new episode:
1. How Clockwork Orange.... What was THAT all about? Brain washing? And just what little devices have they inserted into Karl's head that will make Lostie beach life tougher? "So Karl! How about a nice game of solitaire?"
2. Parallels between Desmond's precognition and Juliet's "hit by a bus" reference?
3. Were the pregnancy tests Widmore too?
4. Impregnating a woman undergoing Cancer treatments? Is that even remotely safe?
5. I was waiting for this episode to either make me love or hate Juliet, and it left me ambiguous. We've seen her story, but I still wonder: What's her story?
6. Does Rodrigo get paid even though he did not appear in the episode, yet his name was on the "Starring" list?
7. Yeah! They kilt the right person, very annoying and absolutely 2-D. Glad that one was chosen.
8. So Danielle is pregnant BY BEN, WITH Alex before the scientific expedition hits the island? Was Ben part of the group she was with? Is there another child? Could KARL be Danielle's kid? I know scripts point to the child being a boy, but could there be a switcheroo? Would Ben have changed his name? Is it possible to have a Danielle flashback with out Ben showing up? Inquiring minds want to know!
9. So Eko will be back a few times, in dreams/visions/flashbacks? But forget about A/L or even Libby? And Michael/Walt are WAY out of the story line. WHere are those kids from the tail section?
Not bad episode, but they spent so much time trying to convince NEW fans that there was enough story & drama for them, I wonder if they haven't fallen over themselves trying to please everyone.
Hi Sneaker,
I found a good gloss of Clockwork Orange a while back. I think Karl and Alex are playing out the themes of Order in Society vs. Freedom of Choice. The indoctrination seemed to be an attempt to get Karl back on the orderly society path.
http://www.sparknotes.com/film/clockworkorange/themes.html
You ask the same questions as I about the sick sister. Was she just an available "lab rat" with nothing to lose? Did she want a pregnancy that badly? Did the impregnation treatment, itself, make her sick? I don't get it.
LOL, I'm not sure if Ben is Alex's biological father. I'll reserve judgement on this one.
Hooray for Eko's return, even if it's only in a vision.
I was a little underwhelmed with this episode. I still don't like Juliet, even though they were trying to make her sympathetic. Showing her as a victim of her callous ex-husband did little to make her likeable, IMHO. I think she's much more interesting when she's shooting people.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:48 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Why is it always three minutes with the Others? Most people just say, "Can I have a minute alone to speak with _______?"
Juliet's been on the island 3 years, 2 months, 28 days. So she arrived on Sept 11, 2001? All the planes in North America were grounded, so she must have left the day before and then crossed the international dateline, perhaps.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:53 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi all! How weird was that brainwashing scene? Did anyone catch the part about God and Jacob? I need to watch that again.
I wonder if someone else will go through it, and the new recruits will "watch."
Hi Lucky, good question about the indoctrination scene. I caught something about God and Jacob, but I'll have to wait for the screen caps to go up. Taken at face value, most of the images I caught were fairly benign - very different from all those raw livers and such that were in the Lost Experience clips. But the totality of the images and their forced imposition upon Karl with the aid of the intravenous drugs, the music, etc, made each benign image very sinister.
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reply
Posted: Feb 07 @ 12:31 PM
by: sheetler (1 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 30, 2006
Happy LOST watching day Joopers!
Sorry the real world has swallowed me whole, and the computer is dead, so I can't come play hardly ever any more
I look forward to reading through the greatness that is the Joop thread whenever I get the chance from now on.
Have a wonderful Wednesday, LOST is almost on!!!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 01:37 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Good afternoon, Joopers! Zen, Captain, Sheetler, Sweet, LLassin, Lucky - it's great to see everybody checking in today!
If you're looking for great general-type spoilers about the rest of the season, check out this interview with Damon & Carlton from EW. Good stuff!
Link to Fed's thread:
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1516783&forumStart=0
Also, in case you missed it, here's a great little Michael Emerson thing. Love this guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTCfFy0NCNM
I'm off to get a little nap. I'll see everyone back here in a few!
4.5 hours to go! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 02:25 PM
by: other_voodoo (1 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 21, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 03:27 PM
by: sweetsayid (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 16, 2006
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
great joopalation
there's some celebration beginnin'!
spoiler free - the way i wanna beeeeeee!
lookin' forward to talkin' to you'all about the epi
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 03:42 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
How about some music? One of my favorite songs by the Dire Straits. Dedicated to Juliet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RdH-F_4nPI
Romeo and Juliet
A lovestruck Romeo sings a streetsus serenade
Laying everybody low with a lovesong that he made
Finds a convenient streetlight, steps out of the shade
Says something like 'You and me, babe, how about it?'
Juliet says 'Hey its Romeo! You nearly gimme a heart attack!'
He's underneath the window, she's singing 'hey la my boyfriend's back'
'You shouldn't come around here singing up at people like that.
Anyway, what you gonna do about it?'
Juliet, the dice were loaded from the start
And I bet, and you exploded in my heart
And I forget the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet?
Come up on differents streets, they both walked streets of shame
Both dirty both mean, yes and the dream was just the same
And I dreamed your dream for you and now your dream is real
How can you look at me as if I was just another one of your deals?
Where you can fall for chains of silver, you can fall for chains of gold
You can fall for pretty strangers and the promises they hold
You promised me everything, you promised me thick and thin
Now you just say 'Oh Romeo, yeah you know I used to have a scene with him...'
Juliet, when we made love you used to cry
You said I love you like the stars above Ill love you till I die
There's a place for us--you know the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet?
I can't do the talk like they talk on tv
And I can't do a love song like the way its meant to be
I can't do everything but Id do anything for you
I can't do anything except be in love with you
And all I do is miss you and the way we used to be
All do is keep the beat and bad company
All I do is kiss you through the bars of a rhyme
Julie, I'd do the stars with you any time
Juliet, when we made love you used to cry
You said I love you like the stars above I'll love you till I die
There's a place for us--you know the movie song
When you gonna realise it was just that the time was wrong, Juliet ?
A lovestruck Romeo sings a streetsus serenade
Laying everybody low with a lovesong that he made
Finds a convenient streetlight, steps out of the shade
Says something like, 'You and me, babe, how about it?'
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:55 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Voodoo! Grab the tinfoil!
Viva la Joopilation!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:57 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Sweet!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
How about some music? One of my favorite songs by the Dire Straits. Dedicated to Juliet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RdH-F_4nPI
Captain! Great song!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 04:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Arrrgghhhh! I'm too excited to nap! I'm delirious!
ONE HOUR! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:08 PM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
Took a look at the Mittelos web site.
http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/
Nothing much there yet. You need a password to progress further.
Not long now...........hang on to your tinfoils.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:12 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Took a look at the Mittelos web site.
http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/
Nothing much there yet. You need a password to progress further.
Not long now...........hang on to your tinfoils.
Woah! My tinfoil is already heating and getting puffy at the edges!
Pop...pop...
Pop...pop...pop...
Pop...
Pop...pop...pop...pop....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
reply
Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:13 PM
by: LncshrLassinMI (313 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 28, 2005
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
reply
Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:24 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Woah! My tinfoil is already heating and getting puffy at the edges!
Pop...pop...
Pop...pop...pop...
Pop...
Pop...pop...pop...pop....
Mittleos bioscience
Anagram = Lost time bioscience
Album for Season 3 = Vega 4's You And Others
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:37 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Feels strange: waking up from Lost hibernation. Hope they got the forum oiled up tonight!
I was a little worried watching Boston Legal last night when the first Lost promo hit, and it was a mere 15 sec. burp. I was concerned that the network may be getting ready to wind down, but they had a couple more full minute spots before the show was through.
getting the snacks ready, Joop better open a few more corks!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:43 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (420 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Viva la Joopilation!
@
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@
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXXX
XXXX
XXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
X X
X Brut d'Blanc X
X X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:43 PM
by: seekaterun (202 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
Have fun Joopers watching the show tonight !!! No more hiatus, no more repeats and no more longing for the show We Love ! WooH HooH ! ~ seek
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:45 PM
by: Little_Rosie7 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 02, 2006
May I just say how nice it is to hit refresh and see new posts again?
As a west side poster, I'll see you all in a couple of hours. Enjoy!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 05:59 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Sneaker! Seek! Little Rosie!
The champagne corks are flying!
Zen, that's great stuff!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:17 PM
by: captainaeon (614 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
nearly 4 more hours to wait
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:44 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Little or no direct reference to Michael or Walt on the clip show..... Names mentioned but no images. And Boone/Shannon, A/L & Libby?
I guess it's time to only look forward.....
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 06:49 PM
by: filbertsnout (12 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 30, 2006
Hi All,
I am at Lucky's house waiting for the BIG SHOW! I have been studying her evidence of the hidden faces and/or children in head contraptions....
And....
I see them too! ! They are there and they are scary, creepy,and downright icky! I am shocked that the writers/producers etc. have made the effort to insert these images, but they have... and I can't wait for the big reveal so that everyone can share in Lucky's brilliant detective work.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 07:08 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
VIVA
LA
JOOPALUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY JOOPERS!
C U Around.
I'm strappin on the tin foil after readin that EW interview, WHEW!
I'll be steady lurkin, Miss you all, Love to lucky
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
Message was edited by: other_voodoo
((((voodoo))))))
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:16 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
1. Did anyone catch any easter eggs (and the anagram) that's supposed to provide clues about Adam and Eve and about the unfolding mythology?
2. Most bizarre scene ever: Ben conscious and talking face down on the OR table. Wild!
3. Tom says Juliet and Ben have a history. I wonder if it's the relationship we speculated about last fall? Lovers?
4. Juliet in the FB: "I'm not a leader. I'm a mess." What the heck happened to her to change her?
5. The big questions: Why would Julie get her sick sister pregnant? Did the sister have cancer? Was the sister sick as a result of the injections to get pregnant? Was she sick prior? Did the ultrasound images of the 26 year old woman with the 70 year old womb come from the island?
6. Edmund Burke is another philosopher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
7. Ben is Alex's father. Adopted, I presume.
8. I'm falling in love with Tom aka Zeke. He's turning out to be the Other's version of Hurley.
9. Karl. Room 23. Drugs. Music. Goggles. Psychedelic images. Yep. We're ready for the Magic Bus episode.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:17 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Thoughts on the new episode:
1. How Clockwork Orange.... What was THAT all about? Brain washing? And just what little devices have they inserted into Karl's head that will make Lostie beach life tougher? "So Karl! How about a nice game of solitaire?"
2. Parallels between Desmond's precognition and Juliet's "hit by a bus" reference?
3. Were the pregnancy tests Widmore too?
4. Impregnating a woman undergoing Cancer treatments? Is that even remotely safe?
5. I was waiting for this episode to either make me love or hate Juliet, and it left me ambiguous. We've seen her story, but I still wonder: What's her story?
6. Does Rodrigo get paid even though he did not appear in the episode, yet his name was on the "Starring" list?
7. Yeah! They kilt the right person, very annoying and absolutely 2-D. Glad that one was chosen.
8. So Danielle is pregnant BY BEN, WITH Alex before the scientific expedition hits the island? Was Ben part of the group she was with? Is there another child? Could KARL be Danielle's kid? I know scripts point to the child being a boy, but could there be a switcheroo? Would Ben have changed his name? Is it possible to have a Danielle flashback with out Ben showing up? Inquiring minds want to know!
9. So Eko will be back a few times, in dreams/visions/flashbacks? But forget about A/L or even Libby? And Michael/Walt are WAY out of the story line. WHere are those kids from the tail section?
Not bad episode, but they spent so much time trying to convince NEW fans that there was enough story & drama for them, I wonder if they haven't fallen over themselves trying to please everyone.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:20 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
10. Speaking of the Magic Bus, how did Edmund Burke get in the path of that oncoming bus? It appeared he was stepping backwards, but still, that didn't seem physically possible. Mittelos did it, but how?
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:26 PM
by: lucky4me8 (75 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi all! How weird was that brainwashing scene? Did anyone catch the part about God and Jacob? I need to watch that again.
I wonder if someone else will go through it, and the new recruits will "watch."
Maybe the history Juliet and Ben have together is related to her impregnating him?
Not in Portland...that's for sure.
I agree, Bg - I'm starting to love Tom.
I'm still partial to the idea that Danielle was originally one of Them, helped children escape, and had part of her memory replaced with the story we know. It would explain so many of the inconsistencies, particulary the "What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen...I wont!" line. Maybe she and Ben used to be together. That's why she somehow knew he was one of Them, even though she didn't really remember him.
Wouldn't it be cool if Danielle was born on the island too?
Episode didn't really blow me away, but it was a nice solid start to the season.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:35 PM
by: Sneaker123 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
<<
While I agree, a good start on the season, and not a spectACular epsode, it was neat getting that feeling at the end: I WANT MORE!!!!
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:38 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Thoughts on the new episode:
1. How Clockwork Orange.... What was THAT all about? Brain washing? And just what little devices have they inserted into Karl's head that will make Lostie beach life tougher? "So Karl! How about a nice game of solitaire?"
2. Parallels between Desmond's precognition and Juliet's "hit by a bus" reference?
3. Were the pregnancy tests Widmore too?
4. Impregnating a woman undergoing Cancer treatments? Is that even remotely safe?
5. I was waiting for this episode to either make me love or hate Juliet, and it left me ambiguous. We've seen her story, but I still wonder: What's her story?
6. Does Rodrigo get paid even though he did not appear in the episode, yet his name was on the "Starring" list?
7. Yeah! They kilt the right person, very annoying and absolutely 2-D. Glad that one was chosen.
8. So Danielle is pregnant BY BEN, WITH Alex before the scientific expedition hits the island? Was Ben part of the group she was with? Is there another child? Could KARL be Danielle's kid? I know scripts point to the child being a boy, but could there be a switcheroo? Would Ben have changed his name? Is it possible to have a Danielle flashback with out Ben showing up? Inquiring minds want to know!
9. So Eko will be back a few times, in dreams/visions/flashbacks? But forget about A/L or even Libby? And Michael/Walt are WAY out of the story line. WHere are those kids from the tail section?
Not bad episode, but they spent so much time trying to convince NEW fans that there was enough story & drama for them, I wonder if they haven't fallen over themselves trying to please everyone.
Hi Sneaker,
I found a good gloss of Clockwork Orange a while back. I think Karl and Alex are playing out the themes of Order in Society vs. Freedom of Choice. The indoctrination seemed to be an attempt to get Karl back on the orderly society path.
http://www.sparknotes.com/film/clockworkorange/themes.html
You ask the same questions as I about the sick sister. Was she just an available "lab rat" with nothing to lose? Did she want a pregnancy that badly? Did the impregnation treatment, itself, make her sick? I don't get it.
LOL, I'm not sure if Ben is Alex's biological father. I'll reserve judgement on this one.
Hooray for Eko's return, even if it's only in a vision.
I was a little underwhelmed with this episode. I still don't like Juliet, even though they were trying to make her sympathetic. Showing her as a victim of her callous ex-husband did little to make her likeable, IMHO. I think she's much more interesting when she's shooting people.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:48 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Why is it always three minutes with the Others? Most people just say, "Can I have a minute alone to speak with _______?"
Juliet's been on the island 3 years, 2 months, 28 days. So she arrived on Sept 11, 2001? All the planes in North America were grounded, so she must have left the day before and then crossed the international dateline, perhaps.
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Re: JOOP! is now Jupiter pt 13
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Posted: Feb 07 @ 08:53 PM
by: back_gammon (993 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi all! How weird was that brainwashing scene? Did anyone catch the part about God and Jacob? I need to watch that again.
I wonder if someone else will go through it, and the new recruits will "watch."
Hi Lucky, good question about the indoctrination scene. I caught something about God and Jacob, but I'll have to wait for the screen caps to go up. Taken at face value, most of the images I caught were fairly benign - very different from all those raw livers and such that were in the Lost Experience clips. But the totality of the images and their forced imposition upon Karl with the aid of the intravenous drugs, the music, etc, made each benign image very sinister.
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